Planning out details for demoing...

[valthonis]

So I've been planning for a while to get more hard core with my Infinity Demoing in the area, but I'm holding off until a few things are ready.

Step 1: Obtain models (done and done)
Step 2: Obtain terrain (done and done)
Step 3: Paint! (paints and brushes obtained, ordering airbrush soon)
Step 4: Details in the demoing...

So the last one is the one I'm currently wrapping my head around, what do you guys think of the following?

1. Limit to four models, under 100pt total.
2. No worrying about LTs, LT orders, or LoL (important, but I think skippable due to limited models/points/purpose of this demo)
3. No worrying about retreat (gives the action movie, last man standing thrill)
4. Basic FtF roll for determining setup/first move (maybe just "pretend" each has a WIP13, as LT are not being used, so the concept of a FtF is presented right away?)
5. Limit the number of weapons and units

It goes without saying that during the demoing it will be stated that I've excluded some things to help facilitate the learning of the Order/ARO system.



I may alter some model rules to either bring them more in line with balance/less complication.

An example would be Morat Vanguard vs Yu-Jing Zhanshi. The Morat are about 5pt more, but for the purpose of the game we would ignore the Morat rule since we're ignoring the retreat anyway. So from a Vanguard vs Zhanshi they're balanced enough in my case for a demo shoot out.

The last bit is what four models and weapons do I give them?
1. 3x LI and 1x HI (LI are all basic profile troops and HI has something "special" like a Multi-Rifle or similar ranged weapon. Ignoring Spitfires, HMGs, etc)
2. 3x LI and 1x HI (2x of the LI are basic profile troops and the other is a heavy weapon. The HI would still have a Multi-Rifle or similar)
3. 2x LI, 1x HI, and 1x "other) (2x LI are basic profiles, HI is a more "Special" weapon, and then something with interesting flavor. A Sineater for example or a Drone)

[Darkeldar]

First off you can download my 75 point demo lists from here: http://wargamingtrader.com/dl/darkeldars-75pt-infini Here are my Human Sphere demo lists, they are set up with 3-4 units each and fairly well balanced through trial and error. I have worked out new lists based on the more current releases and adding the Steel Phalanx and Tohaa, but they haven't been posted yet. I have been using a 3'x3' board, and it has worked out well when I've had 2 vs. 2 demos.

Let me know if you have any questions after you review them.

[valthonis]

Thanks for the reply! I'm sure you had a lot of experience demoing with those lists but to me they just seem a bit off in choices.

The Aleph one for example, a Netrod, a Dasyu (LT), and two Dakini (HMG and Combi Rifle). It certainly fills up 75pt nicely, but it seems like a lot odd things thrown together.

I was thinking something more like this for Aleph.
ALEPH
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 4 0 0

DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (13)
DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (13)
DAKINI Tacbot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 22)
DEVA (G: Synchronized) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser+Devabot / Pistol, Knife. (27)
DEVABOT Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse.

1 SWC | 75 Points

Open with Army 4


But please don't mistake my lack of agreement with your choices as any form of dismissal or negativity towards your effort.

[Darkeldar]

Like I said, I had to deal with the miniatures that were available at the time, and the Deva box wasn't released till 2012, so the Dasyus was the most cost effective Lt. I could use at the time, and the netrod I used, was speculation.

[valthonis]

Thanks again, sorry if I missed your comment about limited models.
How are your new lists looking?

[Darkeldar]

I haven't play tested any of them yet, but this is my new Aleph list:
ALEPH
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 4 0 0

DEVA Lieutenant (G: Synchronized) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser+Devabot / Pistol, Knife. (26)
DEVABOT Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse.
MYRMIDON Spitfire, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 32)
DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (13)
NETROD Electric Pulse. (4)

1 SWC | 75 Points

Open with Army 4

Some of the lists don't change much, but I do really miss the Army Builder 2's output.

[kidterminal]

LOL as in line of sight?

[VisOne]

LoL

Normally stands for Loss of Lieutenant.

In this case I certainly believe it does.

[Locksmith]

Posting not because I disagree, but because I have a different approach. To me, a demo is different than a teaching game. The demo should be a test drive... a chance to see the hottest car on the showroom floor out on the open road. And the salesman sits right next to you, showing off the features and telling you it's ok to open it up and let the engine roar.

Yes, Infinity is a complex game. ARO declaration alone is worth an entire game or three just to get down right. But the nitty gritty of the rules isn't as important in a demo. The players I've demo'd infinity for usually want a more emotional contact with the game. A chance to see what it feels like to play a game of infinity is what they're after, not necessarily a rules clinic.

I'll grant you, this approach works best if I'm demoing 2 people at once. They each get one premade list, usualy 150-160pts, and I coach one of the them through their troops, then let them deploy, then coach the other, and so one. No loss of LT rules or Retreat!. There is a LT only for the extra order. Then I tend to stand back and wait for questions, zooming in and explaining something only when they're ready. If they want to play something wrong, I go ahead and let them do it, and then after the game explain the way the rules really work. Rules should never interrupt the fun of a demo, but they should be explained correctly. Timing, I've found, is the important thing. The goal is for the newbie to walk away thinking 'Man, that game is fun!' not necessarily, 'Man, I got a thorough grounding in the rules of Infinity.'

Each list always includes a drop troop, TO, remote, hacker, or other 'special' piece that's part of the heart of Infinity. The lists are formulated specifically to ensure that Rambo is almost impossible. 7 orders is usually the cap, and I try for 6. This usually gives a mix of MI and HI with a line troop or three.

The lists are not optimized. Full SWC is almost never used. Here are two sample lists. Give or take a model, I'll be using these at Dragoncon this labor day.

Haqqislam - Qapu Khalqi | 7 models
________________________________________________________

Ghulam Doctor (17|0)
Ghulam Rifle (13|0)
Ghulam Rifle (13|0)
Ghulam Lieutenant (13|0)
Scarface (69|1.5)
Cordelia
Hafza Spitfire (23|1)
________________________________________________________

148/150 points | 2.5/3 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/ZFSJl

Nomads | 6 models
________________________________________________________

Interventor Lieutenant (26|0.5)
Securitate HMG (28|1)
Intruder Adhesive (37|1)
Tomcat E/Mitter (19|0)
Zero Combi (18|0)
Stempler Zond Combi (22|0)
________________________________________________________

150/150 points | 2.5/3 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/JrHZE

[Pierzasty]

Have some of mine. All are 150pt lists geared towards showing the feel of a faction, having something to fight with and having 6 orders to avoid (further) Rambo imbalances. The MAF/Shas are kinda pulled out of my ass, the rest should be fine.


JSA:

Domaru chain - LT
Aragoto shotgun
Keisotsu combi
Keisotsu HMG
Karakuri combi
Ninja combi/shock


CA:

Skiavoro (no sepsitor) - LT
2x Seed combi+LGL
Morat HMG
Aswang shotgun
Daturazi chain


Morat:

2x Yaogat combi/PF - 1 is LT
Morat HMG
Zerat sniper
2x Daturazi chain


Shasvastii:

Aswang combi - LT
Seed combi
Seed combi+LGL
Gwailo multi
Shrouded combi minelayer
Shrouded sniper


Nomads:

Interventor - LT
Alguacil combi
Alguacil HMG
Intruder combi
Stempler Zond
Tsyklon - spitfire


ed: Have some Imperial Service!

CG combi - LT
CG KSCD combi+smokeLGL
Father Sforza
Su Jian
Wu Ming shotgun
Kuang Shi chain


also some vanilla !!

2x Zhanshi combi - 1 is LT
Zhanshi HMG
Shang-Ji spitfire
Guilang combi minelayer
Tiger combi
Shaolin Monk chain

[VisOne]

Just got to put it out there.

I never have Link Teams, Hackers, TAGS or any sort of token Camo or otherwise in intro games. These things simply complicate the game and tend to confuse new players. An intro game should be squared away to keep the person interested by interacting with the game the whole time but not confuse them.

Hell I don't use any of the aforementioned in the first 5 or so games I play with a new/newish player.

Very few people come cold turkey into Infinity these days and so your going to want to show them how Infinity is 100% interactive not 50% or 60% like other games where your waiting on your opponent to ask you to roll some armour saves and remove some nicely painted wound markers sorry I mean Space Marines.

[TallonHunteR]

Yu Jing - Japanese Sectorial Army | 6 models
________________________________________________________

Oyama Lieutenant (34|0)
Domaru EXP CCW (29|0)
Domaru Shotgun (36|0)
Raiden Spitfire (28|1.5)
Keisotsu Combi (9|0)
Tokusetsu Doctor (14|0)
________________________________________________________

150/150 points | 1.5/3 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/IaIaJ


Nomads | 7 models
________________________________________________________

Reverend Custodier Lieutenant (38|0.5)
Vertigo Zond GML (34|1)
Zero Observer (21|0)
Tomcat Doctor+zond (28|0)
Zondcat
Alguacil Combi (10|0)
Alguacil Combi (10|0)
Alguacil Combi (10|0)
________________________________________________________

151/150 points | 1.5/3 swc
Warnings: too many points spent (151/150)
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/oKdDJ


couple i came up with.

[valthonis]

Just got to put it out there.

I never have Link Teams, Hackers, TAGS or any sort of token Camo or otherwise in intro games. These things simply complicate the game and tend to confuse new players. An intro game should be squared away to keep the person interested by interacting with the game the whole time but not confuse them.

Hell I don't use any of the aforementioned in the first 5 or so games I play with a new/newish player.

Very few people come cold turkey into Infinity these days and so your going to want to show them how Infinity is 100% interactive not 50% or 60% like other games where your waiting on your opponent to ask you to roll some armour saves and remove some nicely painted wound markers sorry I mean Space Marines.

That was my exact thought, wanted to stress more of the functionality of Infinity and the differences. AROs, FTF Rolls, and Order use. I did manage to run a couple demos recently, not 100% sure if they'll get into the game or not, but the following lists were well received and made for what appeared a balanced fight. We did ignore LT requirement and Retreat, so just basic four order play to keep it simple.


PANOCEANIA
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 4 0 0

FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
ORC MULTI Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (40)

0 SWC | 70 Points

Open with Army 4


YU JING
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 4 0 0

ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (11)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (11)
ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (11)
INVINCIBLE MULTI Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (42)

0 SWC | 75 Points

Open with Army 4


ARIADNA
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 4 0 0

LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (9)
LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (9)
LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (9)
VETERAN KAZAKS (CH: Mimetism) AP Rifle, Light Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (47)

0 SWC | 74 Points

Open with Army 4


HAQQISLAM
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 4 0 0

GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (13)
GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (13)
GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (13)
JANISSARY AP Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (45)

0 SWC | 84 Points

Open with Army 4


NOMADS
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 4 0 0

ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
MOBILE BRIGADA MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (43)

0 SWC | 73 Points

Open with Army 4


And I added this one for the more "Advanced" player that wanted to know if there was something with more durable troops. I still made sure he understood they all still die to basic rifle fire.

ALEPH
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 4 0 1

THORAKITES Submachine gun, Chain Rifle, Flash Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (13)
THORAKITES Submachine gun, Chain Rifle, Flash Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (13)
THORAKITES Submachine gun, Chain Rifle, Flash Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (13)
AJAX 2 Combi Rifles, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0.5 | 43)

0.5 SWC | 82 Points

Open with Army 4

[Locksmith]

If you're going to do demos, drop an e-mail to CB. They're very supportive of demos. Sent me an awesome pack for last year's Dragoncon and just shipped another to me for D*C '13.