D-charges

[kubica]

Hello.

1.Do I need engineer to detonate D-Charges or model who carry them do this too?
2.With one order i can detonnate one D-charge or more ?

[MarcoSkoll]

1) Any model can detonate its own D-Charges. Engineers can detonate any friendly D-Charge. In both cases, the intention seems to be this can be done "remotely" and the model does not need to be in BtB.
2) Only one at a time.

[ToadChild]

As a quick note, you are also allowed to detonate a D-Charge in ARO. This is not considered an "attack", so if you have a D-Charge on model A, and your opponent moves model B such that you get an ARO, you can still detonate the D-Charge on model A. I bring this up because for an attack you are only allowed to target the model that is currently active.

[Claudius Sol]

As a quick note, you are also allowed to detonate a D-Charge in ARO. This is not considered an "attack", so if you have a D-Charge on model A, and your opponent moves model B such that you get an ARO, you can still detonate the D-Charge on model A. I bring this up because for an attack you are only allowed to target the model that is currently active.

I think the reasoning behind this is that "Detonate D-Charge" is not a targeted attack. It doesn't "Choose a model" but rather selects a piece of equipment. I might be wrong, but it checks out to my common sense (for all that's worth).

[macfergusson]

As a quick note, you are also allowed to detonate a D-Charge in ARO. This is not considered an "attack", so if you have a D-Charge on model A, and your opponent moves model B such that you get an ARO, you can still detonate the D-Charge on model A. I bring this up because for an attack you are only allowed to target the model that is currently active.

I'm confused, Toad, isn't that different from what you discussed with Palanka in the official ITS thread?

http://infinitythegame.com/forum/index. ... nanswered/

Palanka:
It's illegal to ARO against any miniature except for the one triggering the AROs. To generate a Beacon, the Reactive Player doesn't target any miniature.

Summary: You can ARO against the miniature spending or the order OR choose some ARO that does not directly affect a miniature.

ToadChild:
So basically you are saying that I can ARO against the active miniature, or against scenery/objective items that I can legally interact with.

The latter could include:
Activating an ITS console
Placing a D-Charge on a legal Lifeblood crate
Placing a D-Charge on the Sabotage target
Detonating a D-Charge on a legal Lifeblood crate
Detonating a D-Charge on the Sabotage target
Does this sound correct? All of these would, of course, require LoS to the active model, not just having them active in your ZoC.

Palanka:
Yes, it's correct.

[ToadChild]

Placing is an attack, and if done in ARO must be against the currently active model.
Detonating is not an attack, and so may be against other models (or pieces of scenery).

Palanka subsequently corrected that you cannot place the D-Charge on a Lifeblood crate in ARO, I believe.

[macfergusson]

Placing is an attack, and if done in ARO must be against the currently active model.
Detonating is not an attack, and so may be against other models (or pieces of scenery).

Palanka subsequently corrected that you cannot place the D-Charge on a Lifeblood crate in ARO, I believe.

Detonating a d-charge is not an attack nor does it have a target.

You can ARO against the miniature spending or the order OR choose some ARO that does not directly affect a miniature.

Was your first statement clarified somewhere? It seems contradictory to the last quote here.

[ToadChild]

There is a universal rule that you can only ARO an attack against the active model. What Palanka did was clarify that placing a D-Charge is an attack, but detonating it is not.

Please highlight what contradictory statement I am making, because I feel like I've been saying the same thing repeatedly.

[macfergusson]

This statement:

You can ARO against the miniature spending the order OR choose some ARO that does not directly affect a miniature.

It says ARO, but nothing about whether or not the ARO is an attack. So I'm wondering where that distinction comes from. Wouldn't exploding a D-Charge attached to a troop be directly affecting it, whether or not the action itself counts as an attack?

[ToadChild]

Right, which was the source of my confusion and the key to Palanka's clarification.

Figures in the Reactive player’s army may act in the Active player’s turn to answer the use of an Order by the active player, only against the miniature that is activated by that Order.

Post #209
http://infinitythegame.com/forum/index. ... ntry429742

Okay, so detonating a D-charge is not an attack, but placing a D-charge (regardless of whether it's on a model or objective) is an attack?
 
*edit- Wouldn't this mean that placing a D-charge as an ARO on a Sabotage target, or Lifeblood crate wouldn't be allowed, because you're making an attack that isn't targeting the miniature causing it? This was in the list of things Toadchild posted earlier that you said were allowed.

Exactly.


My bad, I'll detail the answer:

Activating an ITS console
Depends on the text of the mission.

Placing a D-Charge on a legal Lifeblood crate
No.

Placing a D-Charge on the Sabotage target
No.

Detonating a D-Charge on a legal Lifeblood crate
Yes.

Detonating a D-Charge on the Sabotage target
Yes.

You can't place a D-Charge on anything other than the active model in ARO.
You can detonate any D-Charge in ARO, so long as the model gets a "full" (not ZoC) ARO.

[macfergusson]

Nowhere in there does it discuss an ARO against a miniature that was not activated by the Order. All detonations of D-Charges in that clarification are vs. scenery or objectives, not active models.

That post clarifies that detonation of a D-Charge is not considered an attack, but it is still an action undertaken in ARO directly affecting a model.


Edit:

Scrolling further down, I see the post where this is stated specifically by Bloodgod, and Palanka "liked" the post. ...Not sure if that qualifies as official clarification?

[ToadChild]

I think it is a logical extrapolation from what was being discussed, which is how I ended up with the way I phrased things. But you're right, it is a mess, and not really all that clear.

[macfergusson]

I think it is a logical extrapolation from what was being discussed, which is how I ended up with the way I phrased things. But you're right, it is a mess, and not really all that clear.

I think I finally found it. As much as I dislike this answer.

Attacks can only target the Active Miniature during an ARO. Detonating a D-Charge doesn't require the player to target anything, that's why they can be detonated.

The implication being that detonating the D-Charge counts as an INDIRECT action.

From post 194 on the old ITS 2014 thread.

[ToadChild]

Yup, that's the one.