Unbalanced things

[Mob of Blondes]

The discussion included different themes. One was that not having timers is unfair and can even put the TOs as the bad guy, when the responsability lays in the slow guy(s) (lack of experience, trying to cheat, big lists, etc). Other is that by giving a time reference, people speed up.

[MARC C]

I can translate the rules I saw time ago, but about running out of time, I think AROs were the only thing allowed in one (Infiny-Real 2015). Bah, looked it up:

Timers are not stopped to resolve doubts, unless a referee says so. 50 minutes per player, once run out, only AROs using active player time (I guess you can ask a referee to declare idle if taking a lot of time).
First player starts own timer, sets up, hits clock.
Second player sets up, hits clock.
First player places last miniature, hits clock.
Second player places last miniature, hits clock.
First player declares skill, hits clock.
Second player declares AROs or nothing, hits clock.
First player declares second skill, hits clock.
Second player declares AROs or nothing, hits clock.
Take measures and roll dice.
...
Next turn, second player (making sure timer is his) declares skill, hits clock.
First player, AROs... etc etc

Yes, it's a party of clock smashing. And yes, it seems every place does it different about AROs or running out of time. Just make sure the rules are clear days before the tourney.

That is far too complicated and its really not necessary.

I've now run 4 tournaments with chess clocks. The last one yesterday. We only hit the clock for deployments and only at the beginning of each players turn. Everyone got to play 3 turns and no one clocked himself. Of 15 games (3 rounds of 5 tables) only 3 finished very close to the deadline. I had no complaints about stalling during AROs. 2 players came down to my event to try chess clock play and were impressed how smooth it works. They will recommend it in their city. The games were 2 hours including deployments (1 hour per player). We played Supremacy, Antenna Field and Frontlines with a Spec-Ops.

The event started on time and ended on time. Which is great for the TO* and the participants.

(*yes we organize events because we love doing it but never forget that we have to set up and pack the tables before and after the event. With INFINITY that is a big challenge and takes a long time. Chess clocks makes my TO life much easier)

[Errhile]

Well, we're about to check it out in friendly games (we're, basically, a non-tournament meta) over the next few weeks. See how it works for us

[Section9]

I just wish chess clocks were cheaper...

[Mob of Blondes]

Laptop/tablet/phone aside... they go for less than 13 euros in Europe... USA should have them dirty cheaper if the norm about prices applies.

[MARC C]

I just wish chess clocks were cheaper...

We don't use real chess clocks. We use cheap Dollarstore DEL display timers. One per player. Works fine.

https://www.amazon.ca/niceEshop-Digital ... king+timer

[Errhile]

I just wish chess clocks were cheaper...

We don't use real chess clocks. We use cheap Dollarstore DEL display timers. One per player. Works fine.

https://www.amazon.ca/niceEshop-Digital ... king+timer

Excellent idea! And less than a half of a chess clock for a pair of these timers!

[MARC C]

I just wish chess clocks were cheaper...

We don't use real chess clocks. We use cheap Dollarstore DEL display timers. One per player. Works fine.

https://www.amazon.ca/niceEshop-Digital ... king+timer

Excellent idea! And less than a half of a chess clock for a pair of these timers!

Glad to help. I stole the idea from to local Warmachines crew.

[Errhile]

Well, only the best ideas are worth stealing

[Section9]

Laptop/tablet/phone aside... they go for less than 13 euros in Europe... USA should have them dirty cheaper if the norm about prices applies.

No, dedicated chess clocks run about $50 here in the US.

[Errhile]

I've seen these for about 13 USD at aliexpress, shipping included... sure, cheapish electronic ones, but still.

[Prophet_of_Doom]

I got mine for AU$40 or maybe 50. That was a heavy discount because I work for a chess company. I looked at ebay and chess clocks werent cheap. Not really an item you want to get just to play Infinity tournament games.

[Mob of Blondes]

I guess I found one of the cheapest mechanicals then http://riverhorse.eu/product/chess-clock/ ("free shipping over 80 pounds" said first page, but price appears in euros... and no way to change it?)

[jake]

Meh the MAF problems are overstated even within ITS, if you try playing Morats at 150 pts in ITS. You'd find they actually are one of the stronger armies at low points because of the option of 4pt regular orders. Similarly Imperial Service, which is a "weak" faction is stronger at low points because of their 5 pt regular order.

I really have to disagree with this. With the mandatory inclusion of an Oznat in order t take any Hungries at all, that 4 point order carries a 18-20 point tax. The Oznat Hungries link is also incredibly easy to break since both Gaki and Oznats die very easily, and once broken can never be reformed. You can hide your link and use it to just generate orders, but then you're using your only Core link just to generate orders, and unless they are extremely well protected (and remember, Gaki have no guns to protect themselves and explode when killed) they can still be hunted down by an Impersonator, Infiltrator or AD (especially since Morats are very poor at ARO).

Imperial service can do the same trick, except cheaper, and they don't need to waste a valuable core link since Kuang Shi are regular. Celestial Guard also aren't Extremely Impetuous.

So while the Oznat/Hungries link is an option, it's often hard to use effectively and comes with a lot of drawbacks. This is just my opinion, but in smaller games I actually think unlinked Gaki are much more viable.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't mean to completely dismiss what you were saying. Oznat/Hungries links are viable, of course. But they're still very vulnerable, and they only give MAF the same advantage that armies that can field 9-10 point line infantry already have. JSA or Neo Terra (for example) can also get 5 regular orders for 45 or 50 points, and while that's more expensive. those orders come with effective guns, aren't Extremely Impetuous, don't need to be linked and won't turn Irregular the moment one of them is killed. Both those armies are also able to buy more with the points they have left over.

Anyway, I guess my point of contention is that Morat's problems are overstated. I don't believe that's true at all. If anything, I think a lot of players gloss over the problem because they've found a single build or strategy that works for them in their meta (I';m not saying that this is the case with you, but it is something I suspect from reading a lot of comments on the subject).