Extremly Confused

[BlancoPR]

Recently me and a friend invested in Opp Ice. We come from Warma/Hordes system.

I have some issues with the game.

First- Do I really need to Download a Book in order to get the info on each troop/unit? Is there a card system like warmachine?

Second-Are Sectorial armies a must or can I mix any model from the same army without any issue other than maybe sinergy?

[splayedpaintbrush]

1, Do you really object to downloading a free pdf file to get access to the stats for all the models? However to answer your question, yes if you want to browse all the stats off line*. But you can also use the Infinity Army builder whilst online, which is similar, in a sense, to Warroom but free.
http://www.infinitythegame.com/army/

2, If you think of Sectorial armies as WM Theme Forces you won't go far wrong really. The sectorials are just a restricted model pool selection with the benefit of being able to use link team rules (you'll need a different download for those). The free pdf download mentioned above details what models are available in the sectorial lists at the end.


*unless there is an army builder than includes stats and works offline that i don't know of (very possible).

[Errhile]

As far as I know, unit cards are a fan-made resource. You'd have to look around to find them (I'm not using that stuff since ages ago, so I can't direct you to any).
Nevertheless, they do exist.

Both Army 5 and Aleph Toolbox N3 (free list builder that will also check list legality for you) do generate army lists (in .pdf file) that include all the relevant infomrations for a given model. Stats, skills, equipment. A typical list can easily fit into a single sheet of printer paper (though weapon ranges are likely to take space on another one - I usually print them on the back of it).


As for sectorial armies - they are just one way to make a list. The other is so-called "vanilla" army, a general list made form a given faction's troops. Keep in mind that some sectorials have access to a handful of troops not available to their parent vanilla army (for exmaple, Qapu Khalqi is a Haqqislamite sectorial, but they can field some Nomad and Merc troops that aren't normally available in generic Haqqislam).

Vanilla lists aren't weaker than Sectorial ones - they just play in a different way: their strenght lies in diversity and, in many cases, synergies not possible for a Vanilla (due to troop type limitation).

[BlancoPR]

So are there tools that help you resume what are the benefits of each secotrial army in Pano? Or do I need to verify the Troops/Models on each section and look for how they complement each other?

Aditionally. Where can I find the extra rules for sectorial armies? I just printed the N3 rules which was like 189 pages lol.

[H1ghlander]

Sectorial rules were printed in the Human Sphere expansion book (N2). There is a FAQ for N3 that covers some updates to Fire Teams and whatnot (check the 'Archives' section on the main website), but CB hasn't kept the HS file up.

However... https://www.dropbox.com/s/37ot7797m3es3 ... s.pdf?dl=0

[Errhile]

So are there tools that help you resume what are the benefits of each secotrial army in Pano? Or do I need to verify the Troops/Models on each section and look for how they complement each other?

I'm afraid there is no such tool in a pure form, save perhaps for the articles posted in the blog section of DataSphere (here's the PanOceanian section of these).
I can't even imagine how one such tool could possibly look like!

On the other hand, you can open either of the army builders, set it for a given vanilla or Secotrial, and you will see only troops available to it. Each with it's stats, skills and equipment.

[Scorch]

So are there tools that help you resume what are the benefits of each secotrial army in Pano? Or do I need to verify the Troops/Models on each section and look for how they complement each other?

Aditionally. Where can I find the extra rules for sectorial armies? I just printed the N3 rules which was like 189 pages lol.

Check our blog for some initial ideas about PanO and their armies. Especially the starting army lists might be your thing, as you're making the whole deal a lot more complex than it needs to be.
Keep in mind: this isn't Warmachine, you don't look for combos like in that game. You're looking to counter tricks/equipment from your opponent and try to make sure you don't have some glaring weakness that can be exploited. Complementing your own units is done by having them cover your own back on the table, much like a tactical firefight in real life.

Infinity is more an approach of 'take what you want, succeed/fail and adapt.'

N3 is the core system. For Sectorial play, you'll need Human Sphere. You can then download Campaign: Paradiso for the last couple of rules/weapons.

[BlancoPR]

http://www.data-sphere.net/starting-with-panoceania/2/

Found this link on Data Sphere. Guess Ill start with this and try to move on slowly.

[Errhile]

Can't go wrong there, buddy

[Scorch]

http://www.data-sphere.net/starting-with-panoceania/2/

Found this link on Data Sphere. Guess Ill start with this and try to move on slowly.

That's a good start! Keep in mind those lists are just a couple of ideas. You can look at some of the sectorial articles as well, as they show you a little more of the flexibility of listbuilding.

Keep in mind though, NeoTerra and Military Orders articles are still written for 2nd Edition (they'll be updated soon).

[Claudius Sol]

It was mentioned before, but as a fellow WM/H player, there aren't many "combos" in this game, as you'd see in Warmachine/Hordes.

There are some rudimentary "compliments" in the form of perhaps a hacker using Fairy Dust to protect some heavy infantry, a smoke wielding model tossing a smoke grenade in front of a model with MSV2, or maybe a hacker giving a remote some support ware.

For the most part, each model is stand-alone and can only assist other models by covering the same or different lines of fire.

[BlancoPR]

Thanks for the help. I do find the game a bit overwhleming compared to other systems. Hopefully I can get on pace once I complete reading the n3 book.

[WookieeGunner]

Just think of Infinity as Warmahordes with only Solos and Jacks and that will get you a starting place. As far as the benefits of different sectorials, they all have the same basic benefits (unlike Warmahordes Themed Armies where each army has its own set of benefits):

1) The availability of some units is different in a Sectorial vs the generic (vanilla) list.
2) You can have one 3-5 man link team that gets preset bonuses based on the number of people in the link (i.e. every 3 man gets the same bonus etc.)

Other than that, the benefits boil down to the abilities of the specific models and how you play them.

[Scorch]

Thanks for the help. I do find the game a bit overwhleming compared to other systems. Hopefully I can get on pace once I complete reading the n3 book.

Take it slow. Infinity is a complex system, and you'll probably need some time to 'unlearn' other systems. Most of us have been there and most of us got through it!

Just work with smaller armies, and learn the importance of countering tactics, moving, shooting. Don't go for the whole experience right away. It will come, and it will be awesome. ^^

[Pacific]

The game can definitely seem over-whelming at first. But, stick with it, there is so much depth to the game, so many tactical choices.

If you can get a couple of regular opponents who also explore the depth of the game, promise you it will never get boring!

[Claudius Sol]

I've recently had some 6 WM/H players in my local area pick up Infinity recently. These were people that were hard into WM/H.

The biggest thing for them to grasp were the following (hopefully this is helpful):
-AROs can be mean
-Active Burst advantage is important
-Total Cover can be as powerful or more than Partial Cover
-Range bands can be the deciding factor of a firefight
-Remember how orders work: You can spend each one on one model, spend them all on one model, or anything in between
-You can perform skills during any part of your movement of that order

If you approach the game fresh, these are easily grasped. As a veteran of another system, these can take some time to truly ingrain and embody.

[BlancoPR]

I have another question.

Are all units/models that are available in the market (for example ebay, trade grps) available to play under N3? Other than new sculpts are there some models that are banned?

[Errhile]

No, some profileshave been discontinued when the game was switching from N2 to N3.

For PanOceania, this means the
#280204-0013 Akalis, Sikh Commandos (combi rifle, HMG).
It was a two-model blister pack.

There should be a new Akalis Combi somewhere, but in N3, Akalis can't have a HMG (they swapped these for Spitfires).
Though you could proxy the Akalis HMG for Akalis Spitfire (or use him as conversion basis), and it shouldn't raise a brow in the Infinty community.

In other armies it looks slightly diferent (there were more models discontinued due to loadout, and a line of Combined Army models - the Exrah - was made null and void), but for PanO, save for that unlucky Akalis, you're good to go with second-hand models

[WookieeGunner]

By Banned I assume you mean no rules for them. Currently the banned models I know of are:

1) Caskuda
2) The Vector Operator (2 models)
3) The Void Operators
4) Iskaller Jump Operator

These are referred to as the Exrah.

5) Ko Dali, sort of. She was originally Yu Jing, now she is Combined Army, you can use either model. Actually, unlike Warmahordes, you can use any sculpt of any named character (there is no normal vs. Epic style differentiator).
6) Some of the troopers lost an HMG and gained a Spitfire. You can still use the model, just not as true WYSIWYG (though Infinity tends to be less WYSIWYG then Warmahordes).

[BlancoPR]

By Banned I assume you mean no rules for them. Currently the banned models I know of are:

1) Caskuda
2) The Vector Operator (2 models)
3) The Void Operators
4) Iskaller Jump Operator

These are referred to as the Exrah.

5) Ko Dali, sort of. She was originally Yu Jing, now she is Combined Army, you can use either model. Actually, unlike Warmahordes, you can use any sculpt of any named character (there is no normal vs. Epic style differentiator).
6) Some of the troopers lost an HMG and gained a Spitfire. You can still use the model, just not as true WYSIWYG (though Infinity tends to be less WYSIWYG then Warmahordes).

Were can I find the changes for outdated models? Currently im being offered a big Ju Jing army and would like to know if its worth it.

[Errhile]

Well, I don't recall a big complete list being published, but:

http://www.data-sphere.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2383

Plus two special characters, I guess:
1. Ko Dali (transferred to Combined Army, where she has a new model),
2. McMurrough (lost the ability to be fielded in his human form, and got a new model of his Dog Warrior form only).

Both models remain playable, though - old Ko Dali as generic Tiger Soldier, old McMurrough as generic Dogface & Dog Warrior. Of these, only Ko Dali is important to a Yu Jing player.

[BlancoPR]

For example I'm being offered the following:

Imp starter
JSA Starter
O-Yoroi
Guigia
Haramaki Zensenbutai
Kesotsu Butai
Celestial Guards x5 (one sniper)
Imperial Pheasant x1
Celestial Guard Hacker
Karakuri x 3
daofei with hmg
oniwaban
kitsune
hac tao with mk
hac tao with mr
hac tao with hmg
domaro brutal
wu ming
kempeitai
Tokusetsu Butai
Chinese doc/engineer
Yaokong x2
Invincible with HMG
Tiger Soldier x 2 (1 HMG)
Tioger Soldier x2 (1 HMG)
Guilang Sniper
Ko Dali
Multi Rifle Hsien


I can look up the figures but honestly have no idea if ill be able to use this without making a huge investment in other minis

[Errhile]

Well, Ko Dali you are gettin offered as a part of YJ army is no longer playable as Ko Dali in YJ army. But she will do as a generic Tiger Soldier, a Gui Feng SpecOps, or a conversion base.

The two Tiger Soldiers HMG too are no longer useable as themselves, but can be fielded as Tiger Soldiers Spitfire, and again - no Infinity player will raise a brow.

Also, the deal you're getting looks like somebody was collecting both of the currently existing YJ sectorials (ISS and the Japanese), and I can't really tell you how much extra models would be needed to make it into a working JSA, ISS or vanilla YU army.


Really, man, I belive you're going too deep, too fast...

[BlancoPR]

Well, Ko Dali you are gettin offered as a part of YJ army is no longer playable as Ko Dali in YJ army. But she will do as a generic Tiger Soldier, a Gui Feng SpecOps, or a conversion base.

The two Tiger Soldiers HMG too are no longer useable as themselves, but can be fielded as Tiger Soldiers Spitfire, and again - no Infinity player will raise a brow.

Also, the deal you're getting looks like somebody was collecting both of the currently existing YJ sectorials (ISS and the Japanese), and I can't really tell you how much extra models would be needed to make it into a working JSA, ISS or vanilla YU army.


Really, man, I belive you're going too deep, too fast...

I know . this are just being offered as trade for a current unused Warmachine Army lol.

But yeah i feel you a 100%%%%%

[Pacific]

For example I'm being offered the following:

Imp starter
JSA Starter
O-Yoroi
Guigia
Haramaki Zensenbutai
Kesotsu Butai
Celestial Guards x5 (one sniper)
Imperial Pheasant x1
Celestial Guard Hacker
Karakuri x 3
daofei with hmg
oniwaban
kitsune
hac tao with mk
hac tao with mr
hac tao with hmg
domaro brutal
wu ming
kempeitai
Tokusetsu Butai
Chinese doc/engineer
Yaokong x2
Invincible with HMG
Tiger Soldier x 2 (1 HMG)
Tioger Soldier x2 (1 HMG)
Guilang Sniper
Ko Dali
Multi Rifle Hsien


I can look up the figures but honestly have no idea if ill be able to use this without making a huge investment in other minis

All I can say is... wow !!

[Claudius Sol]

Looks like a general Yu Jing list of models. Depending on what you're trading for, those all look good (as Errhile said, use Ko Dali as a Tiger Soldier).

[Pacific]

You could always get the old Ko Dali miniature on a plinth, paint it in stone/statue colours and then use it as a bit of terrain

[Pierzasty]

Mostly answered, but I'll add my own perspective:

- think of sectorials as the theme/tier lists in Warmachine: they disallow certain units, but increase the FA (AVA in Infinity) of others and unlock certain options. As for new options, you get to make a link-team and field certain mercenaries as part of the sectorial list, even in a strict tournament format where most mercs are disallowed. For example, the Imperial Serivce sectorial of gets to field extra Authorized Bounty Hunters and Father Sforza, as well as some Aleph support.

- some people make army cards but no one I know uses them because the available army builders are so convenient that you get everything on 1-2 pages of a printout/PDF, including stats of weapons used, and since status effects are marked either with tokens or by writing it down (like position of Hidden Deployment), there are no things like WMH damage grids that cards would be necessary for.

- the collection you posted gives you a huge variety of options for a vanilla (non-sectorial) list, as well as for quite a few sectorial ones once you learn the basics and want to try the advantages of themed lists. I can see that many things repeat themselves, e.g. you have Wu Ming, Pheasant, Domaru, Kempeitai, MR Hsien, and the sectorial starters - are those separate complete boxes, or are the contents included below? If you don't know, check with the seller to avoid misunderstanding. Don't get me wrong, it's a great selection even in the latter case. Yes, it seems that the seller stopped collecting a while ago and it shows in a lack of new units, but you still have a ways to go before you'll start needing those.

- I'm totally stealing "Domaru Brutal"

[Section9]

this are just being offered as trade for a current unused Warmachine Army lol.

Then go ahead and trade for it!

That's an epic shit-ton of minis to work on, but it will give you a lot of options as you're learning what play-style works best for you.

If you aren't afraid of converting models, I'd buy a couple Guifeng SpecOps blisters to get a pair of spitfires to replace the HMGs on the Tigers. But be aware that the Tiger Soldiers are getting resculpted relatively soon. Personally, I'm going to use my 10 old Tigers (4x combi+flamethrowers, 2x shotguns, 2x Snipers, 2x HMG) for the 'Multiterrain' option and the new ones for the Combat Jump option.

The only real downside to buying so many models in my mind is getting overwhelmed painting them, so I'd try to do some arranging of the painting queue. Say, the Zanshi and then a heavy infantry or two, then another batch of Zanshi/Celestial Guard/Keisotsu, then some Heavy Infantry again. I get burned out painting the same colors all the time, so I always switch up my paint schemes.

[MARC C]

- some people make army cards but no one I know uses them because the available army builders are so convenient that you get everything on 1-2 pages of a printout/PDF, including stats of weapons used, and since status effects are marked either with tokens or by writing it down (like position of Hidden Deployment), there are no things like WMH damage grids that cards would be necessary for.

I made cards a while back but quit on the project because too many models have 3-5 special abilities. I tried putting the text in the back of the cards but it took too much room (even for index size cards). In the end its not a good idea for INFINITY. The game wasn't designed with cards in mind as opposed to Warmachines. Also, CB does updates some models once in a while. Cards would have to be reprinted where as with Army5 its automatic when you print a new list.

The Army5 lists are much better. And we know that equipment, weapons and skills in Army5 while have clickable links to the Wiki FAQ to access the full text and clarifications. Not sure when but its probably in the works as we speak.

Marc C