N3: That New Book Smell

[Errhile]

What we are promised "3 months into future" are, actually, .pdf's of the rulebook. With implied reason of giving the retailers a chance of turning profit on the book itself before it becomes more or less free to download.
Pretty similar to what I recall was the issue with Paradiso.

I don't recall any really credible information on planned release date for the army lists complete with HS/C:P models.

I recall rumors on Army5 being released in February.

In short, gentlemen:

[Section9]

One of the newer players (well, frankly, all y'all are newer players than I am, I bought my first Infinity models back in late 2005 or early 2006, before the 1st Edition book was released!) commented that it seems that one of CB's goals for the N3 book was to make a good beginner-level starting point.

Aha! So miniatures first rules next. Someone was asking just that... now to remember where.

While the minis were in fact first, there was a small Infinity Quick Start rulebook in the Starter Box. So the intention was certainly to have a minis game from the start. Not like Wyrd and Malifaux, where many of the early minis had been around for years before the Malifaux game was announced.

What we are promised "3 months into future" are, actually, .pdf's of the rulebook. With implied reason of giving the retailers a chance of turning profit on the book itself before it becomes more or less free to download.
Pretty similar to what I recall was the issue with Paradiso.

I have always told people that the reason you buy an Infinity book is for the background fluff and art. Because there is a LOT of cool stuff in there, I have yet to meet an Infinity player who didn't have the books for the fluff, even though they learned from and played from the PDF.

I don't recall any really credible information on planned release date for the army lists complete with HS/C:P models.

I don't either, but I'd assume before Army5 is released. Kinda pointless to release them after the fact.

The delay announcement made it sound like ALL PDFs, rules and army lists alike, were originally going to be available ~3 months from now, but now it's unknown when they will be released.

I recall rumors on Army5 being released in February.

Which will be wonderful. Hopefully the Army List PDFs will be out before then. Until then, there are only stats for about 1/10 of my collection published in N3, which makes it hard to play any games borrowing a rulebook from one of the guys at the game store.

[VisOne]

I would have thought that was a given mate.

While I'm not having a go at you per say it's certainly poor form in my eyes to scan copyrighted content and dissimulate it on the internet. Especially on the owners own forums of all places.

I am not going to try to defend what I did. All I can say that it was not done with any malice on my part.

I publicly apologized to Corvus Belli but if anyone wants to beat up on me for making such a mistake it is certainly within their right to do so.

Like I said wasn't an attack on you as a person but a general statement of my opinion on the matter.

I liken it to say slurping up your food in front of me.

I've got a Korean wife and her parents do exactly this its a perfectly acceptable in their culture infact its a sign of respective/appreciation of the food you have produced. However I was brought up thinking its unacceptable and rude so even though I know taken in the right context is flattering to me its not quite that.

Does that mean I need to call my in laws out and berate them for it. No but I did tell me wife to let them know about the cultural norm in Australia is slurping isn't the done thing so they wouldn't lose face elsewhere.

No harm no foul and I think you for one wouldn't do the like again because you have lost some face as well.

[Icchan]

[M2Cat]

Cool!!

[MacAttack001]

I watched Miniwargaming's review of just N3 rules, pretty impressed with his overall take on the changes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6E84Dfi_mk

[Mob of Blondes]

U-turn, no 3 month wait for the rules.

Koni posted one in the other thread, but here are the fully working links English (with templates) and Spanish.

[Section9]

[ img ]

The hell with that, CB just released the N3 rules PDF!!!! (and there is not an emoticon on this forum to indicate how happy I am right now)

*squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee*!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope this means that the Army list updates are coming soon, too, but at least I can play now.

(my statement about how issues with Army5 should be a reason to release the Army list pdfs sooner still stands, but I am a very happy camper right now )

[Henshini]

I really don't understand how people think that they can have N3 without invalidating HS. Paradiso at least has a campaign and mission system. HS is just units and a dozen pages of rules. The units will for sure be all updated, some for adding silhouettes others for points changes too. I can't say for sure if the rules will be updated too much but I would imagine some are. Regardless of whether they put this in the N3 book or as a pdf on their website, the end result is the same. HS is an art/fluff book now.

[Mob of Blondes]

I really don't understand how people think that they can have N3 without invalidating HS.

CB declarations. I remember Carlos with a place holder cover and the other two books, placing them in order, etc.

[Section9]

I really don't understand how people think that they can have N3 without invalidating HS. Paradiso at least has a campaign and mission system. HS is just units and a dozen pages of rules. The units will for sure be all updated, some for adding silhouettes others for points changes too. I can't say for sure if the rules will be updated too much but I would imagine some are.

There's 26 pages in the Human Sphere rules PDF (24 if you actually only look at rules and not the cover picture and the Rules chapter intro. Link teams covers 6 pages. And that translates across pretty well. 2 pages of other rules, 6 pages of new skills, and 11 pages of new weapons. As far as CB has revealed, the major change to weapons is the new ranges (though EM2 is probably going to get a complete rewrite).

We knew the units are getting re-done, but a not-insignificant number of the units in Human Sphere got revised in Paradiso, so who cares about the units being out of date?

Regardless of whether they put this in the N3 book or as a pdf on their website, the end result is the same. HS is an art/fluff book now.

All Infinity books HAVE BEEN art/fluff books as soon as CB decided to put the rules and unit lists online, back in 2006.

[Henshini]

They really should have just put all the rules in the new book. it would have saved us a lot of bickering.

[solkan]

They really should have just put all the rules in the new book. it would have saved us a lot of bickering.

As if that would have prevented the bickering. We'd all be sitting around posting about how the rulebook isn't going to be out until February if they tried to put all of the rules in the main rulebook.

Because the rulebook is already a 250 page PDF. The "old format" version of the Human Sphere PDF is 26 pages. I'm betting that Human Sphere revised and formatted nicely like the rest of the rulebook is would have added at least another fifty pages to that. Then add the Campaign Paradiso rules...

[Vertrucio]

Yay, more excuses.

Layout adjusts to the content.

The old layouts were actually way more inefficient, formatting them like now would result in the same or less pages. The same goes for more concise rules and example writing.

And they could have easily stripped some stuff from the other book, put that online for free instead, or put it in an anthology of fiction.

Any scenarios and missions would likely be tossed out anyway, outdated and replaced by N3's methods.

Consolidation is always worth the trouble, especially for books, and especially so if they plan to keep adding more and more on top of all this.

Lastly, just because people are willing to criticize decisions doesn't suddenly make it a bad game, or that people are blind to the good decisions. But you always need to be ready to criticize those bad decisions and embrace the good decisions, especially with businesses. Blindly accepting bad decisions is how GW got so big headed that it became its own worst enemy.

[MacAttack001]

There is a great deal about N3 that I am truly appreciative of...

My personal belief is when starting a new edition that you place all of the rules and profiles into the new rule set. Even with the Army creator online which serves as a nexus, it is a mistake to complicate things for players by having them jump hoops through various books.

While I understand what they were trying to accomplish by going this route, ultimately I feel it is a mistake.

When compared to all that was accomplished with the new rules though...it is hardly a huge problem.

[Section9]

Any scenarios and missions would likely be tossed out anyway, outdated and replaced by N3's methods.

I doubt it. The only scenarios/missions that existed in a book before N3 were the Paradiso missions. We had the various missions, before those there was just "The Lost Post" (from ~2007) and Beachhead (from 2007 or 2008).

I'm quite thankful that N3 has missions in it.

Let's see here... Public rules (nothing from the Infinity Campaign System or the actual Paradiso campaign tree and mission) from Paradiso: Casualty Evacuation and Hostile Environment. Cube 2.0, Civvie, Fireteam: Entonomarchos, Fireteam: Haris L1, Fireteam: Tohaa, Ghost: Autotool L1, Journalist, Number 2, and Specialist. Dual Weapons, an expansion of Shock Ammo, Stun ammo, and Swarm Ammo. Chain Colts, revised E/Marat, Flammenspear, Hedgehog weapon, Jammer, Marksman Rifle, Molotok, Rocket Launcher, Stun Pistol, Submachine Gun, Vulkan Shotgun. Defensive Hacking Device, Hungries Control Device, Nullifier, Spotter, Symbiont Armor.

From Human Sphere: Sectorial Army Lists, Link Teams (now called Fireteams), Last Figure Standing, Scenery, and Rules for Civilians on the battlefield. CH: Limited Camo, Chain of Command, Ghost: Jumper L1, Ghost: Servant, Ghost: Synchronized, Hyperdynamics, I-Kohl, (Inferior) Infiltration, (Superior) Infiltration, Mechanical Transmutation, Meta-Agility, Minelayer, Natural Born Warrior, Pilot, Sapper, Seed-Embryo, Sixth Sense L2, Striga L1 Protheion, Striga L2 Morpho-Scan. E/M2 Ammo, Flash Ammo, T2 Ammo, Viral Ammo, and Zero-Visibility Smoke Ammo. Akrylat-Kanone, Assault Pistol, Blitzen, Contender, Crazy Koala, DEP, E/Mitter, Feuerbach, Flash Grenades, Flash Pulse, Guided Multisniper rifle, Katyusha MRL, Marker, Mk12, Spitfire, Templar CCW, Uragan MRL, and Viral Mines. AI Beacon, Baggage, Biolocator, Control Device: Kuang Shi CD, Control Device: Traktor Mul, Ejection System, EVO Repeater, Holoprojector L1, Holoprojector L2, Minesweeper, Nano Screen, Neurocinetics, and X2 Visor.

Has anyone cross-referenced N3 with these lists, to see what's been relocated?