Were there any thoughts on an indoor or outdoor stairwell (fire escape style) which could go on the end? Could be cool to play on too.
I have something like that planed..
And now for something completely different...
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I have something like that planed..
Laser Cut Wargaming Terrain
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After buying bunch of the Futura stuff, I have some crits.
First, the floors are too short, especially for the increased sizes of 3rd edition models, and number of the current models, especially those that point their guns upward, or anything tall. This is a serious problem if you plan to make interiors usable in infinity, or any other game that might use this. That's basically the point of buying multi-level terrain. I was having a lot of trouble moving the old morat around inside, for example.
If you can't change the model, I recommend releasing a height expansion pack that can add a little bit of extra height to each level. Heck, just a spacer where you can see and reach inside a building.
I also dislike the integrated sidewalks on the long edges, it can make storage a pain. Better to fill that space up with some other bits to add flavor.
First, the floors are too short, especially for the increased sizes of 3rd edition models, and number of the current models, especially those that point their guns upward, or anything tall. This is a serious problem if you plan to make interiors usable in infinity, or any other game that might use this. That's basically the point of buying multi-level terrain. I was having a lot of trouble moving the old morat around inside, for example.
If you can't change the model, I recommend releasing a height expansion pack that can add a little bit of extra height to each level. Heck, just a spacer where you can see and reach inside a building.
I also dislike the integrated sidewalks on the long edges, it can make storage a pain. Better to fill that space up with some other bits to add flavor.
How tall are each of the floors? Is there an example next to a figure?
I'll try and take a picture of some figures I have inside the buildings to show the height issue.
The Morat tend to be on the tall side, but considering that many 3rd edition infinity miniatures are getting larger, this will be an issue.
This problem doesn't seem to affect the taller base-0 buildings according to pictures I've seen online. I still plan to buy a few large sets of those since despite the height issue on Futura, the buildings are sturdy and well designed.
The Morat tend to be on the tall side, but considering that many 3rd edition infinity miniatures are getting larger, this will be an issue.
This problem doesn't seem to affect the taller base-0 buildings according to pictures I've seen online. I still plan to buy a few large sets of those since despite the height issue on Futura, the buildings are sturdy and well designed.
The height of a floor is 45mm, so most human sized 30mm minis should be fine. But I understand that those with weapons held high or bigger minis like morat might be problematic. Sadly I can't make the floors higher as this would take an extensive redesign.
The only thing I could do is make some kind of height extension as you suggest. Maybe so that 2 floors with extensions will match up with 3 floors without... I'll look into that.
One option is to use some type of proxy for the problematic figures when they're in the building. Once I get the 3rd edition rules, I'll design silhouettes for shooting and those will work for this as well.
The Base-0 range has indeed higher floors. The floor height there is 57mm.
The only thing I could do is make some kind of height extension as you suggest. Maybe so that 2 floors with extensions will match up with 3 floors without... I'll look into that.
One option is to use some type of proxy for the problematic figures when they're in the building. Once I get the 3rd edition rules, I'll design silhouettes for shooting and those will work for this as well.
The Base-0 range has indeed higher floors. The floor height there is 57mm.
Laser Cut Wargaming Terrain
www.systemagaming.com
www.systemagaming.com
Would a curb-less variant be possible? Or an alternative floor pack without a curb (sidewalk)?
RedDragon wrote:One option is to use some type of proxy for the problematic figures when they're in the building. Once I get the 3rd edition rules, I'll design silhouettes for shooting and those will work for this as well.
Based in leaks by official partners, humans are 36 mm plus base. Bigger guys / mini TAGs will not fit at all. And bases are 3 mm or more, unless you go with thin plastics, which I only saw in the case of transparent bases, nobody using coins or "renedra". With new models, it seems there will be a lot of miniatures well above 30 (Infinity is going 28 mm "to the nipples", and for N4 maybe "to the belly button"
).Anyway, 45 mm per floor is not very real, unless this a game full of halflings. Sorry, my realism again.
If not worth saving, is it worth rewriting? What is more, was it worth writing?
- Mob of Blondes
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45mm is quite realistic. If an average human is 28mm in Infinity or 170cm in real world, 45mm is about 273cm which is a little higher than the average room height, at least here in Finland (260cm).
If Infinity is going 30mm scale, then the room height would be almost 260cm on the nose. But scaled buildings for wargaming should take into account the standard 3mm height of the base, which is about 20cm in true scale and add that to the standard room height. 270cm+20cm = 290cm which is approx. 49mm in scale. Then of course there are minis that are not human, are sculpted with base extensions or are otherwise swinging some equipment to make them taller, all of these could even double the actual height of the mini. Naturally you can't account for all of these deviating sculpts when designing buildings, so the I think using a marker or a silhouette in place of the mini is a good compromise. Or just don't play interiors that aren't on the top floor with the roof off.
Lately we've been leaning on the latter more, it's just a lot more convenient.
If Infinity is going 30mm scale, then the room height would be almost 260cm on the nose. But scaled buildings for wargaming should take into account the standard 3mm height of the base, which is about 20cm in true scale and add that to the standard room height. 270cm+20cm = 290cm which is approx. 49mm in scale. Then of course there are minis that are not human, are sculpted with base extensions or are otherwise swinging some equipment to make them taller, all of these could even double the actual height of the mini. Naturally you can't account for all of these deviating sculpts when designing buildings, so the I think using a marker or a silhouette in place of the mini is a good compromise. Or just don't play interiors that aren't on the top floor with the roof off.
Lately we've been leaning on the latter more, it's just a lot more convenient.
If you made spacer addons for the futura buildings, I would definitely buy some. Also please look into making notches so that the building floors more snugly fit and hold together. I'd add it to a large order of the base 0 stuff I'm planning.
45mm if realistic, maybe, but not practical for the realities of miniature games and the way individual miniatures will be off scale, and certain poses will be larger. I have the old morat, and they're pushing it with the tops of the heads of basic grunts pushing up the roof by a millimeter. The new Morat look to be even larger.
This is especially so for a scifi game where you can have different species facing off.
I think leaving the roofs off is practical, but it's not optimal. The futura city stuff is kind of built with that ground floor and multiple levels. A lot of new terrain out there also adds in that Z axis fighting.
One of the biggest draws of playing games like Infinity is that you can use this great terrain to have cityscapes that look like they're from all your favorite scifi movies.
I'm actually working on a skirmish game very similar in scope to Infinity and wanted vertical city fighting to be a thing, so I've been trying to write rules to make situations like this more bearable. Stuff like abstract building use where you put markers on the roof of occupied buildings, with a floor indicator, and the marker itself placed generally where the miniature inside is.
Other things, like hanging a target warning marker off windows that have units placed at them, this allows you to have a building fully setup, but players can still quickly and easily see if a building has enemies in it, and whether it's at a viewport, so they can make better decisions about where to move.
Also declaring that units can't see in or out of a building unless its against a viewport (window, door, destroyed wall, etc).
45mm if realistic, maybe, but not practical for the realities of miniature games and the way individual miniatures will be off scale, and certain poses will be larger. I have the old morat, and they're pushing it with the tops of the heads of basic grunts pushing up the roof by a millimeter. The new Morat look to be even larger.
This is especially so for a scifi game where you can have different species facing off.
I think leaving the roofs off is practical, but it's not optimal. The futura city stuff is kind of built with that ground floor and multiple levels. A lot of new terrain out there also adds in that Z axis fighting.
One of the biggest draws of playing games like Infinity is that you can use this great terrain to have cityscapes that look like they're from all your favorite scifi movies.
I'm actually working on a skirmish game very similar in scope to Infinity and wanted vertical city fighting to be a thing, so I've been trying to write rules to make situations like this more bearable. Stuff like abstract building use where you put markers on the roof of occupied buildings, with a floor indicator, and the marker itself placed generally where the miniature inside is.
Other things, like hanging a target warning marker off windows that have units placed at them, this allows you to have a building fully setup, but players can still quickly and easily see if a building has enemies in it, and whether it's at a viewport, so they can make better decisions about where to move.
Also declaring that units can't see in or out of a building unless its against a viewport (window, door, destroyed wall, etc).
Icchan wrote:45mm is quite realistic. If an average human is 28mm in Infinity or 170cm in real world, 45mm is about 273cm which is a little higher than the average room height, at least here in Finland (260cm).
28 mm? Which ones are that? You should measure some of the new guys... not even 30, more like 34 and even 38. The new recruits must all be from the basket team.
Did you count the space between levels? Floor/ceilings have thickness, and if there are false floor/ceiling, that can add a lot more than expected.
Trick: measure the height of one step in the stairs. Count the steps. Multiply.
Trick 2: take a building of known height and number of levels. Divide and fuzz it a bit (some could be bigger, it's typical for ground level or technical floors).
(Preemptive note: I know 28 mm can mean to the eyes or to the top of the head, taking as the later)
Vertrucio wrote:45mm if realistic, maybe, but not practical for the realities of miniature games and the way individual miniatures will be off scale, and certain poses will be larger. I have the old morat, and they're pushing it with the tops of the heads of basic grunts pushing up the roof by a millimeter. The new Morat look to be even larger.
3 mm of base, plus the big sizes, plus the weapons or the antennas, and many infantry line will be in the 45 mm range fast.
Stuff like abstract building use where you put markers on the roof of occupied buildings, with a floor indicator, and the marker itself placed generally where the miniature inside is.
Some people use a dice for that. No-dice means roof.
If not worth saving, is it worth rewriting? What is more, was it worth writing?
- Mob of Blondes
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Would a curb-less variant be possible? Or an alternative floor pack without a curb (sidewalk)?
Sure, I can make them custom. Send me an email for details.
Laser Cut Wargaming Terrain
www.systemagaming.com
www.systemagaming.com
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