What do you expect to see in the Tunguska sectorial?

[Icchan]

CB still has a lot of new profiles to create to make the Tunguska a ready sectorial for Acheron Falls. What do you think their specialties are going to be?
I was expecting linkable remotes until I heard the rumors about remotes not generating orders. Maybe we'll get linkable remotes with the Securitate.
Maybe some kind of auxbot unit, like Tomcats have? A sensor auxbot would be funny

[IJW Wartrader]

The rumour about Remotes is false, or someone getting mixed up with Loss of Lieutenant.

[ElectricPaladin]

CB still has a lot of new profiles to create to make the Tunguska a ready sectorial for Acheron Falls. What do you think their specialties are going to be?...

If we see linkable REMs anywhere, it's going to be the Vedic sectorial for ALEPH, with linkable dakinis. I don't know if we'll see it in two places. Frankly, linkable REMs aren't going to be that great outside of that part of ALEPH, which uses REMs as line troops. REMs are expensive, specialized, and limited (no cautious move, penalized Dodge ARO).

As far as Tunguska? I've always been a fan of starting with what we know:

1) Securitate

They have combi rifle/shotguns basic but can upgrade to a HMG or MULTI sniper rifle, both of which are pretty neat on a platform with BS 12. Oh, yeah, and Repeater and Sixth Sense L2 come basic as well. These guys will be interesting linked - on the one hand, a link of three is as good as a link of four, which will save points, but on the other hand they're pretty expensive to fill the role of "basic linkable order monkey." This is why I suspect that we will see a second LI option at some point.

However, Repeater coming standard on a basic infantry choice is interesting. It says that this is a faction that is interested in blanketing the field with Repeaters with a major focus on cyberwarfare. This brings us to our second unit...

2) Interventor

The best hacker in the game, in terms of sheer skill. WIP 15 and HD+ standard, options for fastpandas, options for either boarding shotgun or lieutenant. These guys tell us that Tunguska will be interested in doing HD+ hacking shenanigans. This combines nicely with the idea of plentiful Repeaters on things like line infantry.

3) Spektr

A pretty standard TO camo skirmisher. Starts with a combi rifle/shotgun (seems popular in this army...) and mines. Can upgrade to MULTI sniper, FO, or deployable repeater and e/mauler. Again, this is a pretty standard TO skirmisher. What's interesting to me is that deployable repeater and e/mauler combination. Between one of these bastards dropping mines (too bad there's no Minelayer option...) and another dropping repeaters or e/maulers, your opponent won't know what hit him. Excellent board denial, and continuing the trend of cyberwarfare as a major tactic.

4) Szalamandra Squadron

Basically, a standard TAG, except that it comes with one of the most powerful TAG guns in the game (HRMC). This one stands out as unusual in that it's the only model that in no way takes advantage of or assists in a strong cyberwarfare attack and defense. Well, I guess you need something to just beat face with...

A) Grenzer

We don't know much about these guys, because they're new. What we do know is that they are MI and come with a MSV1 standard (we also know that changes to the MSV rules make a MSV1 better than it was in 2nd edition), and we know that they can be upgraded to rock a MULTI sniper rifle, but don't know what their standard loadout is.

My suspicion of the grenzer is that they will follow the same design space as wildcats and bolts: specialized aggressive MI. I expect we'll see combi rifle/shotguns standard, options for spitfire and one other gun, probably either a boarding shotgun or missile launcher, and we'll see several skill options - doctor? engineer? hacker? forward observer? - and perhaps a neat non-weapon upgrade or two as well, perhaps deployable repeaters and/or e/maulers? And they will probably be linkable.

For me, all this adds together to something somewhat like, well, a cross between Bakunin and Corregidor. Or, maybe not quite like that, but it's a place to start. I suspect that Tunguska will focus on numbers of professional and well-equipped soldiers (like Corregidor) and also feature cyberwarfare and HD+ marking as a valid primary or secondary strategy (like Bakunin).

However, they will also have some element entirely their own... but I have no idea what that will be. It's been floated that they will field large numbers of REMs. That's possible, and will certainly play nicely with the fact that you are likely to field at least one hacker and many Repeaters. However, given the way sectorials are currently organized, it's hard to see how they would do that with the rules. You can raise the AVA on REMs, sure. You can give them access to some neat REMs that you don't give the other sectorials (though, remember, they will have to work with generic Nomads without unbalancing the game...).

The other thought I've had is that Tunguska will have some in-sectorial mercenaries or non-Nomads troops. Off the top of my head, I could see Tunguska working with any of the rogue recreations, Yuan Yuans, Druze, and KTS.

I can also see CB exploiting the "Russia connection" to give Tunguska some non-Nomads troops from... Ariadna. Line Kazaks could fill the role of cheap linkable LI quite nicely. Tank hunters would be... very interesting in this context (freeze that TAG with hacking, then finish it off with an autocannon!). Veteran Kazaks are, frankly, brilliant in any list, as are Ariadna scouts. Assault packs and dog-warriors would be interesting as well.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that Tunguska will get the entire RussiAriadna list! Any one or two of those, however, could be neat in the context we've already established.

That's all I got. Questions? Comments? Concerns? Disagreements?

[Penemue]

Don't forget that the Spektr isn't a standard TO Skirmisher. He's BS 12, while most are BS11.

[ElectricPaladin]

Don't forget that the Spektr isn't a standard TO Skirmisher. He's BS 12, while most are BS11.

Is that so? Hm. One point of BS rarely makes that much of a difference, but it's good to have!

[ElectricPaladin]

On second thought, I wouldn't even entertain the possibility of Tunguska getting assault packs or dog warriors. That would step too much on Ariadna's toes. The others, though, remain possibilities, possibly with limited AVA or profiles.

[IJW Wartrader]

And a point of WIP, taking him to WIP14 for a reasonable Hacker. Especially with the boost to being BTS3 according to the Icestorm booklet.

[McNamara]

So the Grenzer is MI, right?



I guess I still prefer a Sin Eater over him, but having a full Link of those guys might be fun. Their concept art didn't show a HD, did it?

[IJW Wartrader]

Yep. Very similar to the Wildcat in terms of attributes.

[ElectricPaladin]

I like being right about things…

Interesting to see that the Spektr gained Multiterrain and that the grenzer has Courage…

And what the heck is a "breaker pistol?"

[Icchan]

I just noticed that the old Securitate will be discontinued immediately, possibly new one coming next month then?

[ElectricPaladin]

I just noticed that the old Securitate will be discontinued immediately, possibly new one coming next month then?

Seems likely.

[Errhile]

May be, or may be not. We don't have the updated profile on Securitate anywhere so far, and no rules for Tunguzka Sectorial - therefore I see little need for a new Securitate.

However, a new Nomad starter is pretty likely coming in shortly.
Would it be the Nomad box from O:I (minus the Reverend Healer, naturally)...?

[IJW Wartrader]

I thought it had already been stated that Icestorm contains the new starters plus two exclusive figures?

[McNamara]

Yes, its been stated that way. EDIT: Though its a little strange that Bakunin isn't in the Starter anymore. I guess MO isn't either, but with Nomads it would have been very easy to do.

Anybody too have the suspicion that Tunguska will be rather BTS heavy?

[Errhile]

Yes, its been stated that way.

I missed it somehow, sorry

[ElectricPaladin]

I thought it had already been stated that Icestorm contains the new starters plus two exclusive figures?

This is correct - Carlos said as much.

I seriously doubt that the securitate will be removed entirely. For one thing, people tend to get... pissy when their models are completely invalidated. For another, there isn't a single sectorial that doesn't have some kind of cheap LI option. Even the Military Orders - a sectorial based around one of PanO's HI and MI themes, has fusiliers and order sergeants.

If they are being removed entirely - which is a mistake, in my mind - they will probably be replaced by a different LI option for Tunguska.

I strongly suspect that they are just getting an extremely prompt resculpt.

I agree that Tunguska will be BTS heavy, as befits a faction of hackers and cyberwarfare experts.

[IJW Wartrader]

We've seen very rough concept sketches of trench coat troops which I'm pretty sure were confirmed as being Securitate.

[Icchan]

If they are being removed entirely - which is a mistake, in my mind - they will probably be replaced by a different LI option for Tunguska.

I strongly suspect that they are just getting an extremely prompt resculpt.

I agree that Tunguska will be BTS heavy, as befits a faction of hackers and cyberwarfare experts.

Not being removed completely, just their current sculpts will be retired. See Koni's post about retired minis in the News section.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2038

Both the starter and the separate blister are discontinued immediately.

[Locksmith]

what's silhouette 7 mean? The Tag is 7" tall?

[McNamara]

what's silhouette 7 mean? The Tag is 7" tall?

Most people belief there are 7 different Silhouettes, maybe 8 because of the Magariba and some other special stuff.

The number just points you to which one to use and is not a real value like the other stats.

[Lampyridae]

S1 - G:Servant bots, deployables, CrazyKoalas (25mm base)
S2 - humanoid size (25mm base)
S3 - REM size (40mm base)
S4 - Wulver/Gecko/Tariq size (40mm base)
S5 - biker size (55mm base)
S6 - REM size (55mm base)
S7 - TAG size (55mm base)
S8 - Maghariba size (huge)

or something

[Guarda de Assalto]

Templars would be pretty cool.

[Errhile]

I doubt it would happen. A character ex-Templar isn't impossible, but a coherent force of Templars - I really don't think so...

[Guarda de Assalto]

Ok... so a (singular) Templar would be pretty cool.

[Errhile]

I'm more interested, though, what will become of the Securitate. As I argued elsewhere in the forum, they are too expensive to play the role of basic line infantry / general Order Monkeys. Their cost is roughly on par with Kaplans, and exceeds that of Wildcats.

So either they will be completely revamped to make them cheaper, or a new line troop should be expected...

[ElectricPaladin]

I'm more interested, though, what will become of the Securitate. As I argued elsewhere in the forum, they are too expensive to play the role of basic line infantry / general Order Monkeys. Their cost is roughly on par with Kaplans, and exceeds that of Wildcats.

So either they will be completely revamped to make them cheaper, or a new line troop should be expected...

I actually agree that either their profile will change or we will see a new, cheaper LI profile. Or, as I mentioned, we will see some mercenary profile imported from another faction, like kazaks, hired by their fellow Russians or something. I don't think securitate will disappear altogether, because I don't think CB wants that kind of PR disaster.

[Icchan]

Why would they have made new concept art for them if their intention was to make them disappear?

As to changing their profiles drastically to make them cheaper, I'm hoping it will and won't happen. If they make them cheaper line troops, that can only happen by dropping some special skills, equipment and stats. At that point they're not gonna be much different from Algies and Moderators that are both available in vanilla. Then again, if their only special skill/equipment over basic line trooper is their repeater, then they might have some point, especially in Tunguska sectorial.

But really I'm hoping only a slight changes in their profiles and a new profile for Tunguska to use as a line trooper.

[Errhile]

Since we've seen concept art for the new Securitate, I'm pretty sure they'll stick around. With their current profile, they'd be making an interesting elite LI Link Team, and excellent Haris Team (should that option be available to Tunguska) - one of the greatest advantages of Odalisques over Sekban as Haris Team is the presence of 6th Sense L2 within a 3-model team. Given they have elite LI stats (could use boosting ARM to 2 though) and repeaters, they would make excellent advanced Repeater setup for the hacker-heavy lists that seem to be Tunguskan trademark - and a case of typically Nomad synergy.

My bet is they will be only lightly changed (personally, I'd see them swapping the HMG for a Spitfire - being security / police unit they'd be better with lighter firepower alike to Moderators rather than to Algulaciles), and another, cheaper LI will appear to take the role of Order Monkeys.

Though it would be an interesting twist should the Order Monkey unit appear to be Remote Presence (think Dakini Tacbot, though perhaps somewhat cheaper) - requiring a Hacker to be able to field your Order Monkeys sounds very, very Tunguskan to me
I could suggest a few names for these, but assuming it is already long decided (in sa typically CB way), I'll withstand from doing it.

[ElectricPaladin]

That's a nice mental image... a three-man link of securitate, a three-man link of HI or LI/REMs, and then a Szally, an interventor, and a vertigo zond... That would be a nasty list.