Tactics and List Building For... Corregidor vs. Ariadna

[ElectricPaladin]

I play Corregidor, my buddy plays Ariadna, and tomorrow (Wednesday) night, we're going to throw down. This will be my first real game of Infinity in a while, and I'd like some coaching to help make sure I represent the Nomad Nation with all the pride and glory (and dastardly sneakiness) that she deserves.

I'd like this thread to accomplish three things:
1) Help me to make a list with the models I have.
2) General discussion of list-building vs. Ariadna.
3) General discussion of tactics vs. Ariadna.

I won't lie - I often get a little tilted when I see a swarm of camo markers moving towards me from the midfield. It comes from my days playing ALEPH, where I enjoyed the relatively plentiful MSV3s, but felt that I suffered from a general lack of relative firepower. Today, my passion is with Corregidor (:nomad:), and I'd like to start strong!

My collection is quite odd and incomplete, but here's a preliminary list based on what I've got assembled and based (or can stick to a base with sticky tack, or proxy). I don't want to get stuck on analyzing this list, but I bet we'll get better results if I have a starting point.

JURISDICTIONAL COMMAND OF CORREGIDOR
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 10 0 0

WILDCAT Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (19)
WILDCAT Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
WILDCAT Engineer Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (23)
ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (3)
WILDCAT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 25)
WILDCAT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (2 | 31)
LUNOKHOD Boarding Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (29)
INTRUDER (X Visor) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 52)
INTRUDER Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (36)
MORAN Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
TOMCAT Doctor Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower + 1 Zondcat / Pistol, Knife. (28)
ZONDCAT Electric Pulse.

6 SWC | 298 Points

Open with Army 4

[rahxephon]

Are you planning on doing a scenario or kill type mission as that effects things a bit. Also do you know if the ariadna guy is running sectorial?

I would definitely take the Moran as they're really useful for stalling their camo infiltrators, chasseurs or SAS. Then again from the look of it you could probably just field everything. Although (obviously) the hacker isn't worth much in this instance and I don't think its worth it to just take the lunokhod. Maybe if you have the another spare dude you could use him as a second Moran with the Sputniks koalas?

[Arachas]

Against camo counters the Intruder with HMG is just fearsome. I'd take that over the sniper.

Don't forget that you can do speculative shots with the rocket launcher. Look 'em up in the wiki, might help you take out a couple more of those camouflaged bastards.

[IJW Wartrader]

HRLs are not parabolic, no speculative shot for you.

[Arachas]

HRLs are not parabolic, no speculative shot for you.

Aiieeee you're right. That sucks!

Intuitive then?

[Errhile]

Well, with 2 Intruders and a link of Wildcats it looks like a low-mobility list. Unless you expect to have a lot of open terrain to project your long-ranged weapons over, I wouldn't advise that. You have only 3 models with sensible mobility - Lunokhod, Moraan and Tomcat.

[dlfleetw]

HRLs are not parabolic, no speculative shot for you.

Aiieeee you're right. That sucks!

Intuitive then?

Nope. Direct Template Weapons only.

Looking at your list, keeping your link together is pretty important.

You have a Zondbot attached to your engineer, which will make him drop from the link if you use it.

Crazy Koalas are going to help protect you from stuff, but not before Combat Camo takes something out.

Its really hard to cover everything Ariadna can do with strategy, tactics make up what you don't have in your tool box (no smoke to cover movement, No sensor to discover mines, Camo troopers, etc)

Sixth Sense is going to help some, but it won't mitigate an Antipode attack or Van Zant.

[ElectricPaladin]

So, we played twice and I got totally pasted. In the end, I was unable to deal with being outflanked by the enormous number of camo troops, many of them highly well-armed specialists, and cheap chain rifle wielding Scottish maniacs that my opponent was able to leverage against me. My opponent drastically outnumbered me. In both games, he kept me pinned down with a Scottish maniac charge (slightly slowed by crazykoalas), which gave him the time to bring either his Antipodes (game one) or his tank hunter (game two) into a position to waste me.

It was very frustrating.

Luckily, my opponent is a good dude, and we discussed when went wrong for me. His opinions were:
• I failed to use corridors of suppression fire to keep him from advancing as freely.
• I need to be a little more careful about how I use my sniper. I should not allow him to be drawn into a gun battle with an AP HMG on my opponent's active turn - I should have kept him hidden until my turn, when I could have arranged to have the advantage.
• Crazykoalas should be deployed more sneakily (ie. entirely out of LOF).
• A big 5-man link team is awesome, but with wildcats, it forced me to focus my forces heavily in one position, which gave him free reign to maneuver as he saw fit.

In the future, I'm considering bringing a smaller wildcat link team -two normal and a spitfire, as the rocket launcher rarely had the range to be at its best - and relying on them less heavily. I'll use the points I saved to bring more HMGs, and more AD troops to disrupt my opponent's advance. My opponent also suggested bringing a full reaction 'bot, as that's something that Ariadna can't really top (not to mention that it's useful in all cases). So, I'll try that as well.

[ElectricPaladin]

Something more along the lines of this for shoot-em-ups...

JURISDICTIONAL COMMAND OF CORREGIDOR
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 10 0 0

INTRUDER (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (36)
MOBILE BRIGADA HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 43)
MOBILE BRIGADA MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (43)
MOBILE BRIGADA Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (34)
ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
ALGUACIL Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 15)
ALGUACIL Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
LUNOKHOD Boarding Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (29)
REAKTION ZOND HMG + E/M Light Grenade Launcher, Antipersonnel Mines / Electric Pulse. (1 | 35)
HELLCAT Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)

5 SWC | 292 Points

Open with Army 4

And this for objective focused games.

JURISDICTIONAL COMMAND OF CORREGIDOR
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 10 0 0

INTRUDER (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (36)
MOBILE BRIGADA HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 43)
MOBILE BRIGADA MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (43)
MOBILE BRIGADA Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (34)
ALGUACIL (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (14)
ALGUACIL Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
LUNOKHOD Boarding Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (29)
REAKTION ZOND HMG + E/M Light Grenade Launcher, Antipersonnel Mines / Electric Pulse. (1 | 35)
TOMCAT Engineer Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (22)
TOMCAT Doctor Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (22)

3.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open with Army 4

I'm not actually eschewing wildcats. I still think the sculpts and their options are awesome (though the last game kind of turned me off the HRL...). In fact, I probably won't do either of these lists any time soon - I just don't have the models to play them without serious proxying, which I like to avoid when possible (it's just less cinematic and fun for me). I'm just experimenting with the kind of list I might play, and hoping for feedback

[McNamara]

I like the first list you posted in the op.

The MB lists aren't bad, but going Alguacils and adding more intruders is even more annoying to Adriana. Attacking camo markers with camo markers is always bad, unless you are an Intruder.
And your MB links also miss SS2, so that's probably not ideal too.
Adding some WB yourself might also help, but the ones CJC gets are pretty expensive.

[ElectricPaladin]

Adding some WB yourself might also help, but the ones CJC gets are pretty expensive.

Does Corregidor have any warband? I don't remember seeing any. I thought the only Nomads WB unit was Morlocks, which only Bakunin gets.

[Spears]

Mcmorrough who whilst awesome is too expensive to trade with opponents chain rifle mooks and Senor Massacre who is pretty niche and again doesn't want to be going toe to toe with cheaper units.

[McNamara]

McMurrough is rather good against everything else Adriana got though. Like every army Adriana hates there own poison.

Against cheap warbands CJC has only link teams, Koalas, and TR remotes (which Aldo got Mines), but they are bad against camo so are usually rather easy beaten with Ariadna.
And Intruders of course, can't fool them with smoke.

[ElectricPaladin]

The MB lists aren't bad, but going Alguacils and adding more intruders is even more annoying to Adriana. Attacking camo markers with camo markers is always bad, unless you are an Intruder.

So, maybe something like this?

Nomads - Corregidor Jurisdictional Command | 10 models
________________________________________________________

Wildcat Lieutenant (19|0)
Wildcat LFT (19|0)
Wildcat Hacker (31|0.5)
Wildcat Spitfire (25|1.5)
Tomcat Engineer (22|0)
Tomcat Doctor (22|0)
Intruder Adhesive (37|1)
Intruder HMG (44|1.5)
Intruder Sniper (52|1.5)
Lunokhod (29|0)
________________________________________________________

300/300 points | 6/6 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/PW8urg

I need to try some alguaciles, too, but I don't own any yet. That will change when I can get my hands on O:I. I'll noodle about with a list that uses alguaciles.

I do see why wildcats would struggle against Ariadna. As it was pointed out to me, and I have learned, wildcats are worth their points as long as they are shooting. The combination of link, superior BS, and flamethrower options means that they can win firefights, but if they aren't shooting back, they are going to get pasted. This is a problem when your opponent is spamming camo markers, and they can get jump on you.

[McNamara]

The list looks good. A fifth wildcat instead of a tomcat might be useful, so you have a higher chance of keeping the ss2 bonus, but its not absolutely better.

And a second hmg intruder instead of the sniper is of course something to think about, if you really struggle or want to be as effective as possible.
Using a Intruder Lt. is good too, so you can use the cool N2 wildcats and keep that link even longer, is a option too.

And there is the odd Tomcat with Mines, you could use against the warbands on your flank.

A hacker against Adriana is of course a little of a waste too, so either you could ditch him/her or take more remotes. Nomad sectorials can even take two Lunokhods.

[Willowran]

For what it's worth, i would personally suggest NOT using Corregidor if you are to face Ariadna. Corregidor takes the heavy weapons of the nomad faction, but these are less effective against an enemy list where they can take the hits and still have enough orders left to swarm you down.

Personally, i would suggest Bakunin or Vanilla nomads, and make a list where there is no "central unit" pool. AKA a list with a TAG would be weak everywhere else. Instead, take a list with more medium infantry. Intruders especially with HMGs are especially effective.

Ariadna excells in the swarm game, but lack some of the Nomad FancyToys. ODD, TO, and Camo are especially effective, as you know they will have no visors.

Additionally, if your opponent plays swarm-ariadna (or any list with more than one command group) you'd probably want to invest in mines and koalas, both of which force your opponent to burn their extra orders.

Finally, I have personally found Zoe/PiWell to be ESPECIALLY effective against Ariadnan forces, as a result of the ODF.

[rahxephon]

Yeah kinda agree with Willoran but we are looking at CJC so...

I'm not so sure more intruders is necessarily better. I haven't found them to be that good at attacking camo markers, but they are of course good at hitting revealed ones. Having to discover means your camo benefit is largely negated and if you do a move+discover as a marker, they can hold till you declare the discover and then just shoot you unopposed. So you have to drop camo beforehand which is just annoying. For the purposes of discovering markers I'd rather have a MSV2 on a non camo unit. But in all other cases, an intruder. :/

I've never tried using CJC against them before as it just seemed difficult and vanilla was easier.

[IJW Wartrader]

There's a pretty good argument based on http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Camouflage_Example that Discover-Shoot still gets Combat Camo.

Anyway, where Intruders excel against camo is if you can get some smoke cover down from McMurrough or Lupe - the Intruders can then Discover through the smoke. This will reveal them from camo but as it's not a BS Attack it doesn't reveal them through the smoke cloud.

[Willowran]

And that (^^) is a big reason why I suggest vanilla if you can: Ariadna has no visors, so a vanilla nomad player can seriously abuse the Morlock/Intruder combo. Hell, even simply abusing smoke during the active turn can give you near complete range of motion.

[Hero of Man]

There's a pretty good argument based on http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Camouflage_Example that Discover-Shoot still gets Combat Camo.

Anyway, where Intruders excel against camo is if you can get some smoke cover down from McMurrough or Lupe - the Intruders can then Discover through the smoke. This will reveal them from camo but as it's not a BS Attack it doesn't reveal them through the smoke cloud.

Oh, neat!

[Marsyas]

Aren't only short skills that do not reveal you "movement skills which do not require a roll"?

[IJW Wartrader]

And the long skill Cautious Move. In other words, any action you can take in ARO reveals camo.

[csjarrat]

One thing i would recommend in addition to the other gents' posts would be a sensor bot. Revealing stuff through walls and around corners is a really good ability to have, especially if you can team it with high burst weaponry :-)

[McNamara]

and its even better if the sensor bot gives your units ODD.