So my first game against Ariadna and FO and Tractor Muls ended things quickly. A I get more bodies on the table, I suspect this will lighten up, but one TO gets line of sight and tags one of my guys and things go down hill fast. Since the Uragan and and Katyusha can't be hacked, they just hide out of sight dropping guided shots on my guys. And with the Katyusha's triple blast, it is tricky to keep everyone far enough apart. I think Myrmidons will be mostly OK between smoke and cover, but the Dakinis, Devas and of course my Netrods just get victimized.
So how do you fight this? I am still a newer player (in games play, but the crowd is growing) so I am mainly looking for general advice and, as you reveal gaps in my rules knowledge, maybe some corrections.
How are you fighting Ariadna Rockets?
11 posts
• Page 1 of 1
Last edited by Pierzasty on July 26th, 2014, 11:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: fixed title typo
Reason: fixed title typo
- AllistorPreist
- Posts: 12
- Joined: July 22nd, 2014, 6:02 pm
- Has liked: 0 time
- Been liked: 0 time
Get inside buildings during deployment? This should prevent the Katyusha and Uragans from hitting you too hard, as well as make it more difficult for an FO to tag you.
MSV3 is an option to counter camo FO. Asuras are good for this. A Marut wouldn't be bad, I suppose, but hard to combine with the deployment thing.
TO and regular Camo models can get the jump on your opponent if you manage first turn. If you don't grab first turn, they'll at least slow your opponent down, which is always nice.
Is your opponent bringing both the Katyusha AND Uragan?
MSV3 is an option to counter camo FO. Asuras are good for this. A Marut wouldn't be bad, I suppose, but hard to combine with the deployment thing.
TO and regular Camo models can get the jump on your opponent if you manage first turn. If you don't grab first turn, they'll at least slow your opponent down, which is always nice.
Is your opponent bringing both the Katyusha AND Uragan?
Interested in painting?
Want to share and learn?
You should check out the Data-Sphere Painting Campaign!
See the Miniatures sub-forum for more information!
Want to share and learn?
You should check out the Data-Sphere Painting Campaign!
See the Miniatures sub-forum for more information!
-
Claudius Sol - Posts: 1927
- Joined: July 14th, 2014, 4:36 pm
- Location: Summerville, South Carolina
- Has liked: 2 times
- Been liked: 375 times
Lots of common Infinity terrain don't include buildings you can enter. I own MAS buildings and we never play the indoor sections of them as it's a hassle to move models, have models inside multiple levels and roof tops while removing layers of terrain, etc. So I'm not sure that's a viable answer in a lot of cases.
In general, there are a few things:
1) The range on the Ariadna guided munitions is 48, rather than the extremely long range of 96 on regular guided missile launchers. That means the Ariadna player is either deploying the Muls up front and center, or hidden but with likely dead zones at some deployment corners. If the Ariadna player gets first turn, make him deploy first, and see where he situates his Muls. If he doesn't get first turn, you can use AD, Infiltrators, etc, to try and hunt the Muls down before they can fire.
2) Ariadna doesn't have any tricky way to mark you, so they rely on old fashioned FO. That'll usually be WIP 13 vs. your BS/PH 11-13 or whatever. You SHOULD have cover plus whatever other benefits like ODD. If he's coming out of camo to mark you, hopefully he's still at a -3 to -9 on his WIP 13, and he's burning a minimum of 2-3 orders to mark+fire. You can force him to use even more orders by deploying in total cover, so that his guys really need to advance up the board to get his shots in.
3) Since you're not using links (I'm assuming vanilla Aleph), watch where his katyusha goes, and spread your guys out so that perpendicular templates won't annihilate your lines. Vertical positioning may be a bit of a hassle when it comes to moving up the board, but you can also place your units diagonally from the area he's deployed in so that the templates are placed more diagonally, letting you still deploy pretty much on the deployment lines.
In general, there are a few things:
1) The range on the Ariadna guided munitions is 48, rather than the extremely long range of 96 on regular guided missile launchers. That means the Ariadna player is either deploying the Muls up front and center, or hidden but with likely dead zones at some deployment corners. If the Ariadna player gets first turn, make him deploy first, and see where he situates his Muls. If he doesn't get first turn, you can use AD, Infiltrators, etc, to try and hunt the Muls down before they can fire.
2) Ariadna doesn't have any tricky way to mark you, so they rely on old fashioned FO. That'll usually be WIP 13 vs. your BS/PH 11-13 or whatever. You SHOULD have cover plus whatever other benefits like ODD. If he's coming out of camo to mark you, hopefully he's still at a -3 to -9 on his WIP 13, and he's burning a minimum of 2-3 orders to mark+fire. You can force him to use even more orders by deploying in total cover, so that his guys really need to advance up the board to get his shots in.
3) Since you're not using links (I'm assuming vanilla Aleph), watch where his katyusha goes, and spread your guys out so that perpendicular templates won't annihilate your lines. Vertical positioning may be a bit of a hassle when it comes to moving up the board, but you can also place your units diagonally from the area he's deployed in so that the templates are placed more diagonally, letting you still deploy pretty much on the deployment lines.
- Angelust
- Posts: 11
- Joined: June 15th, 2013, 2:59 am
- Has liked: 0 time
- Been liked: 0 time
He brought both last time, but the groups as a whole is pretty new so a lot of our lists are kinda random as we learn what does what.
- AllistorPreist
- Posts: 12
- Joined: July 22nd, 2014, 6:02 pm
- Has liked: 0 time
- Been liked: 0 time
I'll second the "lack of tricky ways to mark targets". I play Ariadna, and I always have to sacrifice 1 or 2 Forward Observer Camo models to even mark a target - and that's if I can draw LoF to it.
Other factions have Sensor + Forward Observer models, or models with Hacking Device Plus - both of which allow them to mark targets through walls. The trade-off is that these GML shots can be hacked (while Ariadna rounds cannot), but Ariadna has to be a lot more direct to get a mark on you.
Also, don't forget that IF the Ariadna Forward Observer would be in the Katyusha's templates, the entire Katyusha shot is cancelled. You cannot voluntarily place a template so that it hits a friendly model. This makes the Ariadna player's job harder, because he probably won't be getting the +3 for range on his marking attempts.
Other factions have Sensor + Forward Observer models, or models with Hacking Device Plus - both of which allow them to mark targets through walls. The trade-off is that these GML shots can be hacked (while Ariadna rounds cannot), but Ariadna has to be a lot more direct to get a mark on you.
Also, don't forget that IF the Ariadna Forward Observer would be in the Katyusha's templates, the entire Katyusha shot is cancelled. You cannot voluntarily place a template so that it hits a friendly model. This makes the Ariadna player's job harder, because he probably won't be getting the +3 for range on his marking attempts.
The silk gloves have been stashed away in some old, forgotten box.
The Ariadna players in my area seem to prefer "camo spam" and "mad scotsman rush" tactics, but I'll be watching this thread in case they decide to try this.
-
ElectricPaladin - Posts: 195
- Joined: July 2nd, 2014, 4:11 am
- Location: Oakland, CA
- Has liked: 26 times
- Been liked: 30 times
Silly question I cannot find in the FAQs. The target who is marked by the forward observer is marked until the end of the turn, even if the FO is subsequently killed. Is that correct?
- AllistorPreist
- Posts: 12
- Joined: July 22nd, 2014, 6:02 pm
- Has liked: 0 time
- Been liked: 0 time
That is correct All. They're marked until the model is removed, so technically you can bombard the unconscious model/spawn embryo to keep hitting his friends.
The last game I ran an Uragan, I blasted a Riot Grrl into paste because she had a daktari sneaking around somewhere...
The last game I ran an Uragan, I blasted a Riot Grrl into paste because she had a daktari sneaking around somewhere...
- Angelust
- Posts: 11
- Joined: June 15th, 2013, 2:59 am
- Has liked: 0 time
- Been liked: 0 time
So getting the Face to Face roll is really important... Got some ideas to try out over the next few games. Thanks all!
Always open to hearing advice and ideas.
Always open to hearing advice and ideas.
- AllistorPreist
- Posts: 12
- Joined: July 22nd, 2014, 6:02 pm
- Has liked: 0 time
- Been liked: 0 time
The last time an ariadna player USED a trak mul against me, it died to an infiltrating oniwaban combat camo boarding shotgun - taking out the dozer as well (he kept him within 1 mov range in case I disabled it - so he could repair it).
Prior to that, I hacked it with an AD2 hacker. The MISSILES can't be hacked. The LAUNCHER PLATFORM itself CAN be (it has NO specific notation stating that it cannot be - unlike Ariadna's HI, or the missiles fired from it).
He kinda stopped taking it afterwards.
Prior to that, I hacked it with an AD2 hacker. The MISSILES can't be hacked. The LAUNCHER PLATFORM itself CAN be (it has NO specific notation stating that it cannot be - unlike Ariadna's HI, or the missiles fired from it).
He kinda stopped taking it afterwards.
In many ways, Vanilla Ariadna is much more vulnerable than Steel Phalanx when it comes to Ariadna's guided missiles. Steel Phalanx can have multiple 4-man link teams, which not only lets them react to a Camouflaged model attempting to Forward Observe them, but it also lets them Dodge guided missiles with a simply PH roll (no modifiers.) With so many redundant layers of protection, this actually means that Forward Observers are one of the least reliable ways to combat something Myrmidon link teams.
Vanilla still has some great tricks though. With mobile MSV2+, high WIP models, such as the Spitfire Deva or the Asura, Discovering and killing Ariadna Forward Observers is pretty easy. This is especially true for the Asura, since her MSV3 means she doesn't even have to Discover a Camo marker in order to shoot at it. Also note that a lot of ALEPH models come with a Nanopulser, a built-in direct template weapon that rolls against BTS instead of Armor (Ariadnans are notoriously lacking in BTS, so they're very vulnerable to the Nanopulser.) You can use the Nanopulser to hunt Camo markers in the active turn, or possibly kill off the Forward Observer at short range so they don't get another chance to mark you.
There are a lot of easy counters in the Active Turn. The tricky thing though is surviving when you're on the defensilive. For that, I suggest deploying far back with Total Cover, and leaving a few cheap defensive models with direct template weapons to help guard alleyways or corners where the enemy is likely to come at you. Myrmidon Chain Rifles are great for this role!
Vanilla still has some great tricks though. With mobile MSV2+, high WIP models, such as the Spitfire Deva or the Asura, Discovering and killing Ariadna Forward Observers is pretty easy. This is especially true for the Asura, since her MSV3 means she doesn't even have to Discover a Camo marker in order to shoot at it. Also note that a lot of ALEPH models come with a Nanopulser, a built-in direct template weapon that rolls against BTS instead of Armor (Ariadnans are notoriously lacking in BTS, so they're very vulnerable to the Nanopulser.) You can use the Nanopulser to hunt Camo markers in the active turn, or possibly kill off the Forward Observer at short range so they don't get another chance to mark you.
There are a lot of easy counters in the Active Turn. The tricky thing though is surviving when you're on the defensilive. For that, I suggest deploying far back with Total Cover, and leaving a few cheap defensive models with direct template weapons to help guard alleyways or corners where the enemy is likely to come at you. Myrmidon Chain Rifles are great for this role!
11 posts
• Page 1 of 1