I'm new to infinity and looking to start collecting Aleph. I'm drawn to the Vedic side of things (love the aesthetic) and like coming up with background or character to my armies. However the lore for infinity is hard to get hold of outside of the rulebooks (which I dont own yet) so I'm working from what I can pick up on sites and forums.
The concept for the splinter group is that they were one of the first teams sent against the Combined and to their surprise the detachment were cut off not only physically but also from the network itself (something Aleph does to protect against intrusion from the VI). The group was forced to face death for the first time as they would not simply return to the network and be restored into new body should they fall in battle this time. Having to face these new emotions meant that when the time came to be reunited, they rejected Aleph for its callous disregard and set off on their own. Since then the artificial beings (Asura etc) have had to face more situations they were not made to deal with and have begun exhibiting their own strange quirks as they diverge more from the rest of Aleph.
So a few questions:
Is this actually possible within the lore (as I said I basing it off when I've picked up)?
How would the Aleph AI and other factions react to this?
Thanks
Splinter Group Lore Question
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- NinjaBaka
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Theoretically possible. The standard procedure for Aleph operatives is to suspend constant Cube backups when fighting CA to mitigate the risk of Cube contamination through Sepsitor. Basically, they restrict communication with the AI to standard comms and Cubes are backed up after each mission, just like in other high-tech factions.
However, there's a standing order that operatives sepsitorized, captured, or MIA while fighting CA are to be considered dead and that they must self-terminate if possible, and their Cube backups are at least blocked (if not outright destroyed - I don't remember how Sepsitor propagates between copies, if at all). Once the "considered dead" status gets flipped, they are to be killed on sight by any other Aleph forces.
Not to mention the fact that Aleph is the only legal AI in the human sphere and any fully artificial beings might face the status of "Rogue AI, capture and dissect ASAP".
In short, doable lore-wise but very inconvenient.
However, there's a standing order that operatives sepsitorized, captured, or MIA while fighting CA are to be considered dead and that they must self-terminate if possible, and their Cube backups are at least blocked (if not outright destroyed - I don't remember how Sepsitor propagates between copies, if at all). Once the "considered dead" status gets flipped, they are to be killed on sight by any other Aleph forces.
Not to mention the fact that Aleph is the only legal AI in the human sphere and any fully artificial beings might face the status of "Rogue AI, capture and dissect ASAP".
In short, doable lore-wise but very inconvenient.
Thanks for the quick reply Pierzasty. I didn't know the full system they use for backing up, it reminds me of the way backups are made in another game called Eclipse Phase.
I thought they would not be welcome around other Aleph however could they fool other factions that were still loyal? The Aleph seem to play things close to their chest so I could imagine using the lack of information to allow the splinter group to "hide in plain sight" for periods until detected by other Aleph.
I thought they would not be welcome around other Aleph however could they fool other factions that were still loyal? The Aleph seem to play things close to their chest so I could imagine using the lack of information to allow the splinter group to "hide in plain sight" for periods until detected by other Aleph.
- NinjaBaka
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I know Eclipse Phase, but it's much less advanced in Infinity, the only thing resembling EP's body-switching are the Aleph Posthumans and CA's G: Mnemonica.
Cube backup works like that:
If you have a cube, you've got a ~quantronic~ gizmo that backs up your memories/personality/contexts/whatever's deemed relevant to a person's identity by the fluffmakers.
Standard "civilian" Cubes 1.0 (basically what a random Fusilier has) don't get backups, they are backups. They're there in case you slip in the shower or choke on a nanoburger, but if you suffer a Panzerfaust hit to the back of the head, chances are that's it for you.
Some Cubes 1.0 get regular backups. It's not a question of different tech, but of how important the individual is. Special operatives typically get backups made before missions.
If you get killed and your Cube survives, you can theoretically get resurrected. In practice you need two things. A body/lhost to download into, and Silk (some biotech stuff that's essential to the transfer process). You can either bypass those bottlenecks by getting official resurrection proivilege (for service to the state, church indulgences, etc.), or arrange it yourself, preferably while you aren't a chip in a storage server yet. This would involve throwing ridiculous sums of money at the problem and/or owing favors to people with contacts who might or might not want to cash in in a very inconvenient/dangerous way. Also, it's potentially illegal because Silk is a closely-guarded Haqqislamic secret and extra bodies aren't exactly lying on the street (and if they are, it's certainly illegal). That's how you get transsexual Avicenna (the Hassassins kidnapped the Cube but the only decent lhost they had on hand was female) or Konstantinos who's working to earn the resurrection rights for his girlfriend.
Cube 2.0 is a different matter. Only two factions (Aleph and CA) can have Cube 2.0, period. That's because it involves constant contact with the AI that updates the backup in real-time. Dead from orbital bombardment? Not a problem, there's a 99.99999% chance we can revive you with little more than the last few seconds of memories lost. Usually such operatives are given superior bodies, like the V:NWI lhosts for Aleph or various EI constructs for CA.
(if you're wondering why CA units don't have Cubes 2.0, all G:Mnemonica units had them but they were FAQ'd away for some silly reason)
There are 3 exceptions to this process as far as game mechanics are concerned:
- G: Mnemonica units aren't actually operatives per se, but either personalities stored in EI's databanks, or the EI itself manifesting through one of its nodes. That means they're not bound to one particular body and can switch without the tedious process of resurrection.
- Aleph posthumans are the human variant of the above - human personalities digitized and uploaded into Aleph's databanks, again, not bound into a body so they tend to use several at a time and switch according to what's needed at the moment.
- Sepsitor - this stuff contaminates cubes on a ~quantronic~ level. Buzzword aside, it's best to assume that all backups of a given cube share the same data, only with different access points. When a cube gets sepsitorized, the "main data" gets corrupted, so the corruption would manifest in all the backups, even if they were made when uncontaminated and kept in total isolation. Yes it's possible to go around it, but that's more of the EI-Nemesis war tech level, far beyond what the human sphere is currently capable of.
That's it for Cubes and Cube accessories. As for rogue personalities, I'd read up on 2 things:
- Aleph units, specifically which ones are humanlike recreations (e.g. anything named, Myrmidons), and which are fully artificial personalities designed to fill certain criteria (e.g. Asuras, Devas). The former get a lot more leeway as part of their humanlike upbringing, while the latter are at far more risk of being treated as rogue AIs.
- Recreations. Some (Avicenna, Wallace, Mushashi) did go rogue, read up on how the AI reacted and what happened later. They're also the most likely to blend in.
Cube backup works like that:
If you have a cube, you've got a ~quantronic~ gizmo that backs up your memories/personality/contexts/whatever's deemed relevant to a person's identity by the fluffmakers.
Standard "civilian" Cubes 1.0 (basically what a random Fusilier has) don't get backups, they are backups. They're there in case you slip in the shower or choke on a nanoburger, but if you suffer a Panzerfaust hit to the back of the head, chances are that's it for you.
Some Cubes 1.0 get regular backups. It's not a question of different tech, but of how important the individual is. Special operatives typically get backups made before missions.
If you get killed and your Cube survives, you can theoretically get resurrected. In practice you need two things. A body/lhost to download into, and Silk (some biotech stuff that's essential to the transfer process). You can either bypass those bottlenecks by getting official resurrection proivilege (for service to the state, church indulgences, etc.), or arrange it yourself, preferably while you aren't a chip in a storage server yet. This would involve throwing ridiculous sums of money at the problem and/or owing favors to people with contacts who might or might not want to cash in in a very inconvenient/dangerous way. Also, it's potentially illegal because Silk is a closely-guarded Haqqislamic secret and extra bodies aren't exactly lying on the street (and if they are, it's certainly illegal). That's how you get transsexual Avicenna (the Hassassins kidnapped the Cube but the only decent lhost they had on hand was female) or Konstantinos who's working to earn the resurrection rights for his girlfriend.
Cube 2.0 is a different matter. Only two factions (Aleph and CA) can have Cube 2.0, period. That's because it involves constant contact with the AI that updates the backup in real-time. Dead from orbital bombardment? Not a problem, there's a 99.99999% chance we can revive you with little more than the last few seconds of memories lost. Usually such operatives are given superior bodies, like the V:NWI lhosts for Aleph or various EI constructs for CA.
(if you're wondering why CA units don't have Cubes 2.0, all G:Mnemonica units had them but they were FAQ'd away for some silly reason)
There are 3 exceptions to this process as far as game mechanics are concerned:
- G: Mnemonica units aren't actually operatives per se, but either personalities stored in EI's databanks, or the EI itself manifesting through one of its nodes. That means they're not bound to one particular body and can switch without the tedious process of resurrection.
- Aleph posthumans are the human variant of the above - human personalities digitized and uploaded into Aleph's databanks, again, not bound into a body so they tend to use several at a time and switch according to what's needed at the moment.
- Sepsitor - this stuff contaminates cubes on a ~quantronic~ level. Buzzword aside, it's best to assume that all backups of a given cube share the same data, only with different access points. When a cube gets sepsitorized, the "main data" gets corrupted, so the corruption would manifest in all the backups, even if they were made when uncontaminated and kept in total isolation. Yes it's possible to go around it, but that's more of the EI-Nemesis war tech level, far beyond what the human sphere is currently capable of.
That's it for Cubes and Cube accessories. As for rogue personalities, I'd read up on 2 things:
- Aleph units, specifically which ones are humanlike recreations (e.g. anything named, Myrmidons), and which are fully artificial personalities designed to fill certain criteria (e.g. Asuras, Devas). The former get a lot more leeway as part of their humanlike upbringing, while the latter are at far more risk of being treated as rogue AIs.
- Recreations. Some (Avicenna, Wallace, Mushashi) did go rogue, read up on how the AI reacted and what happened later. They're also the most likely to blend in.
Wow thanks! I as not expecting such a detailed reply, it was very interesting to read. I see now that with cubes its more of the Ghost in the Shell influence/tech level (were transferring bodies and resurrection is possible but still limited to those with power and influence) rather than that of Eclipse Phase.
I was already aware of post humans but not the other two exceptions (although I assumed the VI had something similar). With the mention of how cubes work, it makes me understand more why there are so few who can act like the post humans do (swapping bodies so easily).
As for rogue personalities, I was leaning towards having only non Greek troops as I read somewhere that the Greek forces were made as a response to the combined army (and as much I guess they would be prepared for being "cut off" when they face troops of the VI). The second reason is mostly I prefer the look of the uncanny valley androids.
With recreations I saw the figures and didnt know they made by the Aleph AI. They do seem like a good place to start on in universe examples of creations giving the middle finger to their maker, I'll check them out!
Sorry I do have one more question out of curiosity, could a cube 2.0 user transfer themselves into a normal body? Just wondering as this would mean that Aleph troops could put themselves into human bodies, baring the difficulty in getting hold of the "materials", and use them instead when they need to interface with humanity and keep the improved ones for the dangerous tasks.
I was already aware of post humans but not the other two exceptions (although I assumed the VI had something similar). With the mention of how cubes work, it makes me understand more why there are so few who can act like the post humans do (swapping bodies so easily).
As for rogue personalities, I was leaning towards having only non Greek troops as I read somewhere that the Greek forces were made as a response to the combined army (and as much I guess they would be prepared for being "cut off" when they face troops of the VI). The second reason is mostly I prefer the look of the uncanny valley androids.
With recreations I saw the figures and didnt know they made by the Aleph AI. They do seem like a good place to start on in universe examples of creations giving the middle finger to their maker, I'll check them out!
Sorry I do have one more question out of curiosity, could a cube 2.0 user transfer themselves into a normal body? Just wondering as this would mean that Aleph troops could put themselves into human bodies, baring the difficulty in getting hold of the "materials", and use them instead when they need to interface with humanity and keep the improved ones for the dangerous tasks.
- NinjaBaka
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Keep in mind that all Lhosts are organic-based.
The very basic ones are just cloned "Mk.1 humans". The better you get, the more gene-fixed, modded, and cyber-upgraded they get.
The very basic ones are just cloned "Mk.1 humans". The better you get, the more gene-fixed, modded, and cyber-upgraded they get.
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
NinjaBaka wrote:Sorry I do have one more question out of curiosity, could a cube 2.0 user transfer themselves into a normal body? Just wondering as this would mean that Aleph troops could put themselves into human bodies, baring the difficulty in getting hold of the "materials", and use them instead when they need to interface with humanity and keep the improved ones for the dangerous tasks.
We don't even know if Cube 1.0 users can do that. When resurrection is mentioned, assume it's a clone/bioroid/whatever you call an artificial body. It could be possible to abduct a person, mindwipe them, and download someone else's personality into their mind/Cube, but most of the human sphere would consider that war-crime-tier illegal. It's a good plot hook, as it would probably allow the resurrected person to bypass biometric scans much easier. Then again, Speculo Killers are a thing in the setting, so...
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