Using Patroclus Effectively?

by **Joasht** » July 31st, 2014, 2:30 am

Patroclus feels like a fairly unusual model to me; his stats aren't too bad, but he costs a lot more compared to his other brethren that have similar (and sometimes better) stats.

It is clear that most of his points are due to his Holoprojector. While I can see it being useful, I'm not sure if it is worth that much.

All that said, how are you guys finding him, and how do you use him to utmost effect?

Thanks!

by **Penemue** » July 31st, 2014, 2:44 am

As someone who doesn't play Aleph, I cry salty tears when you say "his stats aren't too bad" for his cost. Patroclus is sturdy, hard to hit, hard to target (given the 3 holos), and carries a pretty solid weapon, all for ~50 points. And hey, MA3 and Exp CCW, just because.

by **Guarda de Assalto** » July 31st, 2014, 3:48 am

He only has hole echoes level 1 now.

by **Penemue** » July 31st, 2014, 4:09 am

Ah. Then a model is well-rounded as he is could be disguised as...basically anything, you say?

by **Ursun** » July 31st, 2014, 6:32 am

He really starts to get usefeull when you combine him with another high value target:

2 Achilles coming at you over both flanks? one is real one isn´t (but is still bad)
2 Asuras marching at you? which one is easy to hit but hard to kill, which one is hard to hit and hard to kill ?

He´s also usefull for fear tactics and disguising point:

Oh look its achilles/Asura sitting on that flank waiting to strike ... and wait, aren´t you 40 points over the limit?
Oh, and here comes a Garuda/Ekdromoi HMG I would have never guessed was even there!

And lastly, he can be a nasty suprise and used to feign a problem that isn´t there:

Ha, your deployment zone is only guarded by a lonly Dakini? Shoot it ... wait, it´s patroklus Spitfire? WTF!
or
Hm, you are obviously missing some points, so there is a AD or TO trooper somewhere, better make sure I leave someone behind facing my backfield ... and it´s a lie, patroklus just uncovered himself starting to shoot my guys -.-"

All in all he is kind of situational, but from time to time he´s worth bringing just for the fun of keeping your enemy puzzled what the hell is going on

by **Claudius Sol** » July 31st, 2014, 6:33 am

I've seen good use as you set up a board with two Achilles... Your opponent is forced to try and figure out which is the real one. Also, two Phoenix's to mess with deployment. Or perhaps two machaons, or even just two officers.

Use it enough times and you can not even run two of something, but instead bring "Achilles" in a seemingly 340 point list.

Mind games are where holo lv 1 shines.

by **Zyrael** » July 31st, 2014, 8:42 am

You aren't mistaken. Patroclus is at BEST a gimmick. And a costly one at that. The most optimum use I have found is to affect your opponent's deployment... but it usually makes it more cautionary and defensive which in Annihilation scenarios can be the opposite of what I want.

He's most often impersonating Achilles, but the second either one of them attacks... the ruse is over. I can only speak for myself, but I can only have 120 pts worth of models NOT use an attack for so many orders before I feel like I'm playing for the model instead of the model playing for me.

by **Joasht** » July 31st, 2014, 12:21 pm

Thanks for the replies thus far!

I'm in the same boat with Zyrael. I'm honestly fairly surprised that so many people are using Achilles as a target; I've always felt that "underselling" Patroclus would be a better mind game, since "surprise, EXPLOSHUN!" in melee from what was meant to be a normal Myrmidon, would seem more tilting.

by **McNamara** » July 31st, 2014, 12:41 pm

Don't forget he has a 6-4 MOV. So if you disguise him as something slow or static like a Sniper you can surprise your opponent with suddenly moving up a flank he opened up, thinking to be save.

by **Guarda de Assalto** » July 31st, 2014, 1:05 pm

I have a list all pointed out that's two Thorakitai link teams full of specialist with Achilles and Patroculus as the two hitters. Thematically I just love the idea of the Thorakitai scrambling to take and hold objectives while the big guy and his little buddy roll up the flanks murdering everything in sight. Now if I could just paint faster so I could try it out!

by **AllistorPreist** » July 31st, 2014, 6:12 pm

I wonder how many times I can get away pretending he is Achilles so I can hide an AD Ekdromo off board. He seems a little pricey, but solid for what he does.

by **The Revanchist** » August 4th, 2014, 6:51 am

Actually, I feel like his Holo will be more useful given changes to N3. The range bands, for instance: if he is masquerading as a Sniper covering a fire lane (Agema, for example), it will strongly influence your opponent's first turn as it would be much less assailable, but somewhat avoidable. Then you take your turn, and zip up and outflank them. Likewise, of course, as a SMG Thorakitai or Shotgun Myrmidon, and turn the tables on someone looking for an easy kill (I wish I could disguise him as a Netrod sometimes....).

With the Hacking changes (whatever expansion that they're getting), he could be a tempting target for enemy Hackers, only to find out that they wasted several Orders or more trying to shutdown an Asura that wasn't there.

I think he'll be fairly interesting, and I would love more reasons to play him.

by **Alf O'Mega** » August 5th, 2014, 6:11 pm

I've been thinking about patroclus too - is it possible to disguise him as an Asura or Achilles for example to hide an Ekdromoi you have waiting off table? It'd be cool if you could but I don't know if that's allowed...

by **Claudius Sol** » August 5th, 2014, 9:21 pm

Alf O'Mega wrote:I've been thinking about patroclus too - is it possible to disguise him as an Asura or Achilles for example to hide an Ekdromoi you have waiting off table? It'd be cool if you could but I don't know if that's allowed...

Yeah, so long as they're a humanoid figure on a 25 mm base. So you couldn't disguise him as a Garuda or Dakini, but Deva, Naga, Myrmidon are all OK.

by **Alf O'Mega** » August 5th, 2014, 9:37 pm

It sounds daft now I think of it, but I couldn't account for my points on the table and not declare 29 points of drop trooper could I? It sounds sort of obvious to me now that you can't...

It's one of Ursun's examples that made me think of it...

by **Claudius Sol** » August 5th, 2014, 10:44 pm

Alf O'Mega wrote:It sounds daft now I think of it, but I couldn't account for my points on the table and not declare 29 points of drop trooper could I? It sounds sort of obvious to me now that you can't...

It's one of Ursun's examples that made me think of it...

Not quite sure what you're asking here.

by **Alf O'Mega** » August 5th, 2014, 10:56 pm

Nevermind - just rtfm! Airborne deployed troops don't have to be declared, army lists are hidden - so you can over represent to prevent your opponent from realising you've got a drop trooper. Can you tell I'm a noob!

by **Pietras404** » August 6th, 2014, 7:42 am

Claudius Sol wrote:Yeah, so long as they're a humanoid figure on a 25 mm base. So you couldn't disguise him as a Garuda or Dakini, but Deva, Naga, Myrmidon are all OK.

Not quite right, from wiki (emphasis mine):

- As noted in the rules, a Holoprojector L1 user may only disguise himself as another unit of 'the same size'. So what exactly determines this 'size'?

The question of size refers precisely to the volume it occupies in space.

Like a human sized figure can not imitate a normal Remote (which is lower and wider) a Remote can not mimic a Remote Server (Which is obviously smaller than the conventional Remote). Nor a mounted Aragoto (Which is larger and quite different dimensions) or a Aragoto without his bike (That has a human scale) .

While a human can imitate a Aragoto without bike but not with it, a human can imitate a Remote if the model has human dimensions (Patroclus / Dakini).

by **Claudius Sol** » August 6th, 2014, 2:12 pm

Well... Indeed it appears I was wrong. Sorry about that.

Hmm... Now that is an interesting prospect to disguise Patroclus as a 12 pt dakini.

by **Pietras404** » August 6th, 2014, 2:40 pm

Yeah, both have MOV 6-4

by **Amanchanamun** » October 1st, 2014, 9:35 am

Still i dont think patroclus deserves the cost.

by **Section9** » October 1st, 2014, 11:40 pm

Say that after you've run the same list with Achilles one game and Pat plus AD the next.