My exploits with Corregidor

[Arachas]

Welcome! In this log I intend to keep a semi-detailed account of my experience with my first Infinity army: the Corregidor sectorial.

The goal, besides providing you good fellas with some entertainment, is to learn from my many mistakes and becoming a better player!

With that out of the way, my first entry: after four practice games (of which two were played with the quickstart rules and all were played with the lists from that same quickstart booklet), today would feature my first game with an actually composed list.

This is the list, which I stole right from this forum, without much thought (thanks again, VisOne):

Nomads - Corregidor Jurisdictional Command | 6 models
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Wildcat Spitfire (25|1.5)
Wildcat BS (19|0)
Wildcat Lieutenant (19|0)
Hellcat Combi (24|0)
Alguacil Hacker (22|0.5)
Intruder Adhesive (37|1)
________________________________________________________

146/150 points | 3/3 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/AFocqx

The enemy featured a Myrmidon link team, with 3 regulars and a lieutenant. They were supported by an Agema with a Mk12 and a couple of netrods.

Friends of the Nomad nation, a sad day. For I was almost completely wiped out in the first turn of combat! The ALEPH scum link team sped across the well-filled board, provoking no ARO's until they had managed to swing around my line. Then they summarily slaughtered my comrades from behind.

Some pictures might illustrate where I went wrong:







Fellow Nomads! Shower me with your wisdom so I might kill those cabrones from hated ALEPH next time!

[VisOne]

First thoughts,

Watch your arc's: Easier said than done but the main point is you have 180 degrees to work with and if the majority of it is wasted on looking at a wall then change the position of your models!

Disperse your models: If you don't have the first turn then you might be better off not forming your link team till your first turn. This way you can spread out and have interlocking fields of fire while still getting your ARO's to stop the enemy blitzing a link team across the board. This can lead to you getting picked off 1 by 1 though so think smart about deployment.

OR

Don't disperse your models: Lump your link together cover all the area directly around you in let say a quarter of your board and take the enemy on your terms with your +1 to burst so 2 combi shots instead of 1 for example in ARO. This can lead to you getting picked off by templates though so think smart about deployment.

Taking into account your models owned from the other thread maybe try a list like this next time.

Nomads - Corregidor Jurisdictional Command | 6 models
________________________________________________________

Wildcat LFT (19|0)
Wildcat LFT (19|0)
Wildcat Lieutenant (19|0)
Wildcat Spitfire (25|1.5)
Hellcat Combi (24|0)
Intruder HMG (44|1.5)
________________________________________________________

150/150 points | 3/3 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/gVbltz

The 4th Wildcat can be your Vortex Spec Ops but this will bump them into a 4 man link team giving them SSL2 removing the ability of the enemy to sneak up on you without getting ARO's of some kind!

You will need to proxie the Combi Rifle Intruder from the boxset for the HMG but I'm sure you friend wont mind and you really need it to counter the ODD -6 those bastard Myrmidons have. Remember its a marker and therefore has 360 degree line of sight until you reveal the model!

Without a little more information this is what I think thus far.

[Arachas]

This link team stuff seems powerful enough. Do they need to keep some kind of unit coherence though? Or am I thinking too 40k-ish now?

Yeah, I was guessing the setup was the most important thing I overlooked. I'm used to playing more static skirmish games, where you need 1-3 turns to get into position anyway. I never anticipated the entire link team making it across the board in the first turn. Harsh lessons are being learned!

Your list doesn't seem that different from mine. Did you just change the weapon configurations?

[VisOne]

I dropped the Alguacil Hacker and added an extra Wildcat in there. This left enough SWCa and points left over to bump the Intruder up to a HMG.

This list is far more offensive and built to try and counter the list your enemy fielded.

The 4 man link team to remain a link team must be within the ZOC of the link leader. That said a models ZOC extends 8 inches around it so that is a total of 16 inches; 8 inches on either side of the model to keep the other 3 models in. Wildcats are more than a match for Myrmidons since they have similar stats, better in some ways and more importantly have one of the things Myrmidons should rightly fear Flame Throwers!. They may be light ones but their still templates that can cause multiple wounds and instantly burn ODD away on a successful hit.

[Falcon]

Yeah I expect it would have been a different match had Arachas also linked. Then again I popped three from behind (and more than 8 inch out) So he should wouldn't have gotten an ARO with his SSL2 (right?). So mostly it was a deployment problem. 4 units in line facing towards my DZ. Flanks/rear wide open

[VisOne]

Yeah I expect it would have been a different match had Arachas also linked. Then again I popped three from behind (and more than 8 inch out) So he should wouldn't have gotten an ARO with his SSL2 (right?).

Your confusing SSL1 and SSL2 the former is only within ZOC the later will allow them to counter you even if your outside of their 180 frontal arc as long as your either 1 shooting at them or 2 firing out of smoke at them or any other model; as long as they can draw the normal straight LOF to them.

Not to be confused with 360 degree visors; SSL2 does not give and 360 degree LOF but works in a similar way if you attack the model/models with it.

•Level 2: Allows the miniature to react in a simultaneous fashion to attacks (Not to movements or any other actions) by Impersonators, Camouflaged, and TO Camouflaged figures and enemies hidden by a Zero Visibility Zone in LoF, no matter the distance and the blocking of LoF by Zero Visibility Zones and not applying its –6 Modifier.
The miniature can also react simultaneously to any attack performed against it out of its LoF.

So lets say Arachas has his 4 man link team given them SSL2 in this game and you walked pasted them when they were looking the wrong way they would not get an ARO. However if you declared shoot at any of them all of the models in the link team who could draw a straight LOF from them to your model declaring the shoot order would be able to ARO as per normal.

[Arachas]

So link teams rock. Is there a reason I would NOT go linked?

And you can "burn away" ODD?

[McNamara]

Yes, if ODD is hit by fire than its gone. Same goes for Nanoscreens, and TO gets reduced to Mimetism. Thats why Fire rocks, and Corregidor is definitely the Sectorial with the most fire weapons available.

Link Teams gives you bonuses, so not taking them is just giving up on advantages. The only reason to not play is with Link teams, is when starting out to learn the basics first, and because they can be rather good. They just balance out the limitations sectorials have with bonuses (vanilla list don't have them because of this, Tohaa are of course the exception here). They are by no means necessary though, and you still can have success without them too, they just make it easier most of the time.

[Arachas]

In other words: if you're good and boss enough, you can play Vanilla? Or have I just not found the right way to deal with link teams yet? There has to be a way to exploit their limitations. Isn't that what Infinity is all about? Getting your behind whooped by new units or tactics and then learning to deal with them?

Also, question: if I were to include another Hellcat in my list, what would I arm it with? And can I just drop two Hellcats in behind enemy lines and expect them to live?

[shintaibane]

Link teams, especially five man teams, are really good but they have some weaknesses. First you have to declare a link team leader... pop him off with a sniper while the team is in ARO and they lose all benefits until a new leader is named, which won't happen until the team's active turn.

All troops have to stay within 8" of the link leader... templates, Particularly the large "flame" template can catch a significant number of team members at one time. Remember as you kill off members the benefits of the link team go down. Circular templates are also bad news for link teams that may cluster.

Again as it has been mentioned positioning of the link team is the thing to exploit when fighting a link team... if they cluster then a template weapon can take out a good portion of the group. If they spread then the team could get picked off one by one. If the leader is left out in the open during the team's reactive phase then the leader can get sniped and all benefits lost for the rest of the reactive phase.

There may be some more "weaknesses" but those are the ones I look for.

[McNamara]

Also, question: if I were to include another Hellcat in my list, what would I arm it with? And can I just drop two Hellcats in behind enemy lines and expect them to live?

I wouldn't do more than one AD troop at 150 points, and in general a good limit is 3 for one combat group. If you got SWC for the Hellcat the HMG is hands down the best option. The ADHL one can be fun, but I tend to go for Carlotta if I want an unexpected ADHL, because you get so many other useful stuff with her too.

[Falcon]

Ah crap. that's right. Wildcats can even make a 5 link :S
And all them wildcat units are also quite a bit cheaper in points than my myrms

[Arachas]

I wouldn't do more than one AD troop at 150 points, and in general a good limit is 3 for one combat group. If you got SWC for the Hellcat the HMG is hands down the best option. The ADHL one can be fun, but I tend to go for Carlotta if I want an unexpected ADHL, because you get so many other useful stuff with her too.

Nah, I'm thinking for when I expand; within 150 pts I'll stick with just one. I'm about to order the Corregidor box from Cho, minus the hacker. He suggested I hang on to the Hellcat that comes with the box, so I have two when expanding. Hence my question.

[VisOne]

Why not just pick up a whole box set?

Even if just for laughs.

[Arachas]

Why not just pick up a whole box set?

Even if just for laughs.

*shrug* I will never need that second hacker. And it's a cheaper box this way. I can afford a couple of new minis, but I'm not going to buy what I don't really need.

[Falcon]

Yeah I expect it would have been a different match had Arachas also linked. Then again I popped three from behind (and more than 8 inch out) So he should wouldn't have gotten an ARO with his SSL2 (right?).

Your confusing SSL1 and SSL2 the former is only within ZOC the later will allow them to counter you even if your outside of their 180 frontal arc as long as your either 1 shooting at them or 2 firing out of smoke at them or any other model; as long as they can draw the normal straight LOF to them.

Not to be confused with 360 degree visors; SSL2 does not give and 360 degree LOF but works in a similar way if you attack the model/models with it.

•Level 2: Allows the miniature to react in a simultaneous fashion to attacks (Not to movements or any other actions) by Impersonators, Camouflaged, and TO Camouflaged figures and enemies hidden by a Zero Visibility Zone in LoF, no matter the distance and the blocking of LoF by Zero Visibility Zones and not applying its –6 Modifier.
The miniature can also react simultaneously to any attack performed against it out of its LoF.

So lets say Arachas has his 4 man link team given them SSL2 in this game and you walked pasted them when they were looking the wrong way they would not get an ARO. However if you declared shoot at any of them all of the models in the link team who could draw a straight LOF from them to your model declaring the shoot order would be able to ARO as per normal.

Hey VisOne,

Two questions about this.

1) I thought that only the one that gets shot (from behind) in de link with SSL2 gets an ARO. Not the others. As it's the being attacked that triggers the ARO. Since the others don't get attacked and don't have LOF they should not get an ARO. Right?

2) If I sneak behind and shoot with a Chain Rifle, technically none get 'attacked' as it's a direct template weapon. So shouldn't it even be that none get an ARO in that case?

Edit: After more though, chain rifle does probably count as attack. Just not direct attack. So... the one(s) affected probably do get an ARO but still only if they survive? Since it's not face to face with direct template weapons.

[VisOne]

A little confusion here and thats not hard as SSL1 and SSL2 are complex rules that are reinterpreted often.

Its the activation of a model with an order that creates an ARO. SSL2 has limitations on what orders outside of their LOF (forward 180 degrees) they can react too.

Basically its as follows.

Front 180 degrees - Treat as normal if I they an see you activate a model then they will get an ARO as per normal.
Back 180 degrees - No ARO* unless directly targeted by a shoot skill/order.

Templates like Chain Rifles make no difference you declare shoot and the SSL2 model getting shot gets to make an ARO. That ARO will usually result in a FTF roll because they have now being granted LOF to you even though your technically not in their normal LOF you have granted it to them by preforming an action which they can "hear" or "fell" or something to that effect instead of needing to "see" like normal.

Terrain and normal rules about what you can and cannot see still come into account. So for example if you shoot a link team with grenade thrown or shot with a grenade launcher and the link team can't see the modeling doing the shooting they don't get to shoot back since there is terrain in the way blocking the shot. BUT they do get to dodge and it would be a FTF roll thanks to SSL2. It gets even more complex than that.

In summary:

SS2 models that are attacked gain LoF regardless, but can't shoot as an ARO if LoF is physically blocked by intervening objects.

SS2 models that are not attacked get to react to any attacks* hidden by zero visibility zones, ignoring the ZVZ for LoF and BS modifiers. Note that this was confirmed by Gutier, as mentioned in the above thread.

*This is the big bit, that they get to react to all attacks hidden by smoke, such as CC or laying a Mine. However it's only the ZVZ they're ignoring, not the normal facing restrictions.

If the SS2 model is not being attacked and is facing the wrong way then it's stuffed, SS2 will have no effect at all.

SOURCE: http://infinitythegame.com/forum/index. ... -2?hl=ssl2

LOF = Line of Fire (Same as below) I use this for 'shooting' skills this is normally the front 180 degrees of a model.
LOS = Line of Sight (Same as above) I use this for 'sight' related skills this is normally the front 180 degrees of a model.
ARO = Automatic Reaction Order
FTF = Face to Face Roll
ZVZ = Zero Visibility Zone

[VisOne]

1) I thought that only the one that gets shot (from behind) in de link with SSL2 gets an ARO. Not the others. As it's the being attacked that triggers the ARO. Since the others don't get attacked and don't have LOF they should not get an ARO. Right?

Yeap I incorrectly answered previously.

Only the model you shoot at will get an ARO IF your behind all of the others and no one can see you normally.

2) If I sneak behind and shoot with a Chain Rifle, technically none get 'attacked' as it's a direct template weapon. So shouldn't it even be that none get an ARO in that case?

Edit: After more though, chain rifle does probably count as attack. Just not direct attack. So... the one(s) affected probably do get an ARO but still only if they survive? Since it's not face to face with direct template weapons.

Templates weapons are still activated with a Shoot Order you react to the order not the weapon used so yes they still get an ARO and NO it will not be FTF as you have chosen to forgo your option to make dice rolls by using a template. Using templates on link teams are a double edge sword you can hit 1 or even all 5 some times but in doing so you might get anywhere from 1 dice to 10 dice rolled back at you and you can't defend yourself with dice as your going for an auto hit.

My thoughts are its usually better to hit a link team with a single cheap template troop rather than with another link team with a template.

Example a 11 point Naffatun w/ a Heavy Flamer; flame throws an entire link team and kills no one but is killed in return that's not much to lose.

However in your case your risking your much more expensive Myrmidon from your 4 man link team just to get an autohit. Better to use 4* shots from a combi rifle so you can at least make the rolls FTF. *4 Shots because its burst 3 + 1 for a 3 man link team.

[Falcon]

Thanks for the clarification VisOne

Yeah I already figured that an attack with a DTW means trading kills in most cases. So that would only be an option with someone outside the my fireteam or at most a Chainrifle myrmidon or thorakitai. This is a nice way to take out the enemy linkleader though, breaking the link on the rest for easy pickings.

I conveniently forgot that just because it's not FTF on the DTW doesn't mean it's not simultaneous

[Arachas]

By now I've played games with all of my gaming buddies: for two of them, it's their first wargame. Above poster Falcon is one of these guys.

Infinity has been a sure hit so far. In fact, two of these guys have actually started to become proper wargamers, having bought paint (instead of joining me on my painting sessions and chipping in). Whoa!

Considering we now have at least four regulars, I have converted my gaming room (oh yes, I have one) to hold two tables:



Hopefully, some cool battle reports soon.

Edit: Question for your Nomad vets out there. Do I want the new Wildcat mini with HRL? Will I use it?

[Arachas]

Played another game tonight on this table:



This time I remembered to deploy my troops in such a way that they covered each other. My opponent set up in the "base" part, I had the jungle. He guarded his flank with mines and an impersonating Assassin (what's his name?).



Notice the sniper in the elevated position to the top left. She took out my hacker located in some bushes.



So I dropped my Hellcat... behind her!



Boom! The same Hellcat proceeded to kill another two models from his elevated position, effectively giving me control of the flank. After he shot another in the turn afterwards, my opponent was forced into retreat. That forced some of his models into a position where they could be ARO'd, with deadly result.

Took this game home!

[VisOne]

impersonating Assassin (what's his name?).

Fiday: Hussein Al-Djabel

Nasty fellow with that Viral CCW and MA LVL 4

Good to see you learnt from your previous game.

[Arachas]

Fiday: Hussein Al-Djabel

That one.

[Arachas]

Right on! Another game today. Played on my ever-improving table:



It was another straightforward shootout, so we could get a further grip on the rules. I set up my guys knowing I would have no trouble with my JSA opponent's combat jumpers (there weren't any).



My opponent (paragonxc) deployed in the bushes, relatively spread out (but cautious of incoming Hellcats!).





All started well. The first shootout that occurred was between a Keisotsu and one of my Wildcats. Rolling two crits, he went bye bye.

Then, paragon took Musashi on a roll:



This guy swept around the flank, charging a Wildcat. The Wildcat was summarily dispatched, but not before wounding Musashi during his charge (yes, I rolled a crit and he didn't. Another crit...).

As this point it's getting dark outside, this is the last pic I could take.



After this, Musashi proceeded to take out another two of my models (now caught in their rears with my flanking 'Cat getting his arse kicked), before I could smoke him with my Intruder (earlier represented by my SpecOps model).

I rolled another couple of crits during the course of the game, pissing paragon off. We ended up ending the game on equal terms: my Intruder and Spitfire Wildcat in a corner, his last couple of models trial to gang up on them. Would have been interesting to see it go down, but we had to relieve the babysitter!

Still a very enjoyable game, with something for both sides. What I took away? Make sure you cover ALL your models, including those placed on the flanks!

One question: when a model throws a grenade and you ARO, does it count as a Face to Face roll? Or is the grenade a template weapon that just uses PH and Dispersion to see where it ends up? Because I could have negated a E/M grenade that took out all of my Intruder's goodies if that were the case. We ruled it was a template, though, so it went off despite my higher rolls.

[Hero of Man]

Nice battle report!

And it would be a face to face roll; I know this from many tales of people trying to drop smoke at their feet as an ARO. It requires a dice roll, so its not the same as a direct template weapon. Think of the PH roll as the BS, and the failure being the dispersion.

[VisOne]

Hand grenades are weird they kind of fit under the 'shoot' order short skill so it makes them face to face even though one person might be using their BS and the other their PH.

[Arachas]

Hand grenades are weird they kind of fit under the 'shoot' order short skill so it makes them face to face even though one person might be using their BS and the other their PH.

Okay, but what happens when I roll higher than my opponent, who is throwing the grenade? Is the grenade still thrown with dispersion, or does nothing happen?

[Carreras]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a normal face to face roll negate the losing parts shot? If so.. Shouldn't the grenade just be negated and no dispersion in the case of face to face rolling? think we've played it like this..

[Carreras]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLI7GpIreQs theres where I got it from

[Hunter2k3]

Hand grenades are weird they kind of fit under the 'shoot' order short skill so it makes them face to face even though one person might be using their BS and the other their PH.

Okay, but what happens when I roll higher than my opponent, who is throwing the grenade? Is the grenade still thrown with dispersion, or does nothing happen?

In ftf the grenade will be negated. It might seem odd. But imagine you get shot before you could actually pull the splint and dropped the greande... or if you want it more hollywood-like: One of the bullets hit the grenade in mid-air.