Data Sphere

With Op icestorm coming along I was hoping to discuss some nitty gritty Corregidor tactica with the starter box in mind.

Feel free to discuss pros and cons of anything mentioned or not mentioned but I'm wondering how you nomad players view the starter box minis as a kick off for a Corregidor sectoral?

My personal taste is that I am anti furries and super keen on flames as second weps, rems, cheap (useful) tags, hacking, engineers and mobility.

However is the icestorm box really only good for a vanilla or a tunguska starting point? Also will icestorm and a Corregidor starter actually have models being used?


Few questions kick offa few core tactica queries:

- wildcats and hellcats : how do you find them to work in or out of links? I for one dont know if I should replace alguaciles with wildcats as basic line troops or what can still do ok without a link team? E.g. do I link a wildcat engineer with wildcats and leave a hellcat hacker out on their own? Do I take alguaciles as cheerleaders or boost my orders with links?

-why would you take geckos over iguana? 73 points for flames and ejecting pilots compared to tags that are basically heavy infantry?

-mobile brigada? Worth the points and what loadouts?

-what can snipe (well) and whats worth the points?

-are intruders, unlinked as LTs or basic kits worth it? Or they only shine when x visored msr'd out?

-moran - don't see why this isn't a good thing, but better than say a lunokhod?

Spec ops? - hacker loadout with boarding shotgun the best way to field a hacker for cheap or would the alguaciles hacker actually get used?


I have a lot of questions and much of it comes to the starting idea of: if you buy op icestorm, when it comes to playing Corregidor and not vanilla, would you even use the 4 models in that box or will they get turfed for link teams full of dcharges or combat jump?

Hope a few people chime in with varying perspectives as Corregidor tactica actually looks to have a huge range of options but will op icestorm and a Corregidor starter wind up with too many junk options to ever get taken in a 300 point game?

Quick Opinions:

Alguaciles over wildcats. Linked is good.

Geckos super cheap.

Mobile brigada possibly getting buffed to 4-4 not bad for their cost then.

Msr intruder is worst loadout. Hmg good but order hog, lt very safe option. (cant link these)

Morans are good as infiltrating specialists, shame no camo.

Ignore spec ops to start, meta permitting might see use.

Hellcats and Intruders CANT link! (As a matter of fact: there is no unit in Infinity with Camo or Combat Jump that is able to link!!)
Intruder Lt. are worth it!
Massai are really worth it, but cost SWC.
Lunokhods are extremely good, but need a Hacker.
The Brigada seems to just got a MOV bump and a point reduction, which is really great. But they were worth it before too!
The best Sniper in CJC is the Alguacil, when she's part of a Link Team.

Basically the only units not worth taking* in CJC are: Valerya, Hellcat Sniper, Senor Massacre.
*they aren't bad either, but they don't really add much, other units can do better or cheaper. All other units in CJC are worth taking for what they do!

And the Furries are really really good. So if your playing vanilla you really gimp yourself not taking them. And even if your playing CJC. McMurrough is really really really good too.


Combing the 2 Starters doesn't seem that effective though. CJC f.e. has no good units to make use of the Grenzer and Spektr. The only minis that might fit for that armor style are the Intruders. So I guess its possible.
Getting both is good to start collecting, since you are getting a lot of minis for your money, but I don't see any super effective list, because you have to choose if you link the Alguaciles or the Wildcats!
I think Alguacils are a lot better (and can link with the awesome Lupe), because MI suffer a little as they are now in general, but Wildcats are still one of the best/cheapest 4-2 MOV MI in the game, so if you like them, you can play them to great effect too.

Wildcat link teams are rather expensive at 200pts but doable at 300pts. I find that the Alguaciles link team is cheap and versatile. BS 11 boosted to BS 14 with link. Only thing is that they are very dependent on the link whilst Wildcats are more independent due to their high stats.

Geckos are the most awesome thing ever.

Lunakhod is good but you need to pay the hacker or TAG tax to get em and they don't infiltrate. My Corregidor list are very seldom without a Moran. They offer you so much board denial.

OK, I had to try and make a playable list out of the new Nomad and the CJC Starter and this is the best I could come up with, with a little amount of proxing:

Nomads | 10 models
________________________________________________________

Intruder Lieutenant (36|0)
Intruder Combi (36|0) either Spektr or Wildcat
Intruder Sniper (52|1.5) Grenzer or Wildcat
Alguacil FO/Repeater (14|0) male Alguacil
Alguacil FO/Repeater (14|0) male Algaucil
Lupe Balboa (23|0) female Alguacil
Alguacil Hacker (22|0.5)
Hellcat HMG (29|1.5) female Hellcat
Carlota Kowalsky (30|0) female Wildcat or Spektr
Mobile Brigada HMG (43|2) MB with Multi.
________________________________________________________

299/300 points | 5.5/6 swc
Warnings: too many Intruders (3/2)
open with Aleph Toolbox : direct link

And if you only use the Wildcats as proxies than its even a 100% Corregidor.

You could switch the HMGs around a bit between the MB, Hellcat and Intruders. If you're a few points over you can always downgrade the Alguciles and/or skip the Intruder Sniper and take even more HMGs.
Or take a Intruder/Hellcat Hacker and use the Algucile with HD as a Proxy for one with HMG, ML or Sniper.

The two purchased together dont make the best of 300 point lists. But they give you the two corregidor cores and you can work from there. Try it at 200 points and see if you like wildcats or a happy with alguaciles. Maybe something like this.

Nomads - Corregidor Jurisdictional Command | 8 models
________________________________________________________

Alguacil Hacker (22|0.5)
Alguacil HMG (19|1)
Alguacil Paramedic (14|0)
Lupe Balboa (23|0)
Hellcat Combi (24|0)
Mobile Brigada HMG (43|2)
Intruder Lieutenant (36|0)
Wildcat LFT (19|0)
________________________________________________________

200/300 points | 3.5/6 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/G8WnGl

So looking at a lot of combinations of CJC in my own lists as well as those mentioned the balance between alguacils and hellcats / / wildcats / tomcats really shifts between layering the same roles hey?

Cheap lines troops that can soak up your link option then kinda crumble once that link breaks, or throw that link into a more specialist wildcat option hey.

I just ordered the IO and dire foes for now (I play aleph and needed it anyway) but in terms of my own style I'll play the starter and decide which sectoral (tunguska maybe :O )

Do a lot of people take other REM options when playing through CJC and do a lot of people take multiple intruder lists or is that a little unique?

The problem with multiple Intruders is that they are expensive and rather slow. I usually keep to the obvious HMG Intruder occupying some elevated point with good LoF, ready to blast away anything in his sights. And let somebody else do the running around and getting killed.

Oh, and occasional Intruder Lt, but it is a big point investment that is very safe, but rarely pays his worth in combat.


@ Valerya Gromoz - I've tested her a few times. She's specific, but not bad - if you can deal with having your hacker outside your Link Team. With better WIP, she works pretty well as an offensive hacker (naturally, it means you need to provide her with repeaters), and she carries a Marker for that purpose. A slightly better Algulacile hacker, priced in-between Algulacile and Wildcat hackers (Wildcat being hands-down better defensive hacker), and suffering from the in-between problem: not as cheap or as good as one or the other.
But she really ain't bad.

Naturally, this is true for now - with N3 looming on the horizon, we can not be sure how it will look in a few months.

Most of these questions can be answered here: http://infinitythegame.com/forum/index. ... r-tactica/

trapthem wrote:So looking at a lot of combinations of CJC in my own lists as well as those mentioned the balance between alguacils and hellcats / / wildcats / tomcats really shifts between layering the same roles hey?

Cheap lines troops that can soak up your link option then kinda crumble once that link breaks, or throw that link into a more specialist wildcat option hey.

The problem is that Wildcats crumble just as easy to most weapons than Alguaciles do. 1 more point or ARM is rather insignificant.
They got V:Courage though, so they might stay in situations where the Alguaciles retreat, but they die just as easy.

And I am not sure what you mean by the first question?
The Wildcats are really different to Hellcats. Tomcats are kinda in between them, but have the advantage of climbing plus and being LI!

So, first of all, Icestorm is an excellent Corregidor starting place. Of the seven models in the box, four of them (the three alguaciles and the mobile brigada) are usable in Corregidor. All of them are brand new versions of models that really needed a new sculpt. In fact, I'd argue that the only thing Op:Ice is better for is vanilla. Tunguska only has two models in the box (the grenzer and the spektr) and Bakunin has only one (the reverend healer).

trapthem wrote:wildcats and hellcats : how do you find them to work in or out of links? I for one dont know if I should replace alguaciles with wildcats as basic line troops or what can still do ok without a link team? E.g. do I link a wildcat engineer with wildcats and leave a hellcat hacker out on their own? Do I take alguaciles as cheerleaders or boost my orders with links?

Firstly, yes, hellcats don't link. They're excellent drop troops, with some great options, but they don't link.

Secondly, wildcats are superior to alguaciles, but only when they're shooting. The rest of the time, their advantages (better BS, better firefight weapons, slightly better armor) won't actually keep them alive longer. For wildcats to earn their points back, you need to play them very aggressively. Depending on the rest of your list, you might not want your link team to do that. In that case, alguaciles are a better choice.

It also might be good in some lists to just do both. An alguaciles link fireteam to hang back and shoot missiles, a wildcat fireteam to advance. With the way the lieutenant special order is changing, using it to switch up your fireteams might be better than using it for an extra action.

trapthem wrote:-why would you take geckos over iguana? 73 points for flames and ejecting pilots compared to tags that are basically heavy infantry?

Being in two places at once is a pretty huge advantage. Two geckos is only a little more than one iguana, but give you more board coverage. Also, both of them carry two-shot heavy weapons that can easily kill things even the iguana's HMG would struggle with.

trapthem wrote:mobile brigada? Worth the points and what loadouts?

Yes. All.

Specifically, the HMG loadout is great, the multi-rifle loadout makes a great backup, and the boarding shotgun loadout is cheap and helps to round out a small link team for +1 B.

trapthem wrote:what can snipe (well) and whats worth the points?

I like intruder snipers, especially as the MSV2 and X-Visor let them gaze over the battlefield like angry gods, smiting who they will. In terms of sheer numbers, a five-man alguacile link team led by a sniper is probably the "best" but a bit harder to use.

trapthem wrote:are intruders, unlinked as LTs or basic kits worth it? Or they only shine when x visored msr'd out?

Ordinary combi rifle intruders are still great. Intruder lieutenants are great, and very hard to kill.

trapthem wrote:moran - don't see why this isn't a good thing, but better than say a lunokhod?

They're great for board control. Their ability to infiltrate, possibly even hide entirely out of LOF with their koalas blocking important movement lanes, can be hilarious. The infiltration is what makes them superior to lunokhods in that job - not that lunokhods are bad, mind you. They just have different roles. Lunokhods are better at following something - say, your main fireteam... - up the field and punishing anything that approaches it.

Well, on Brigadas - the concept pics for the new Brigada show a Combi among available weapons. Which will be good: same Burst as Multi, but way cheaper, I guess.

Multirifle itself isn't very interesting ,but I've found that underbarrell Light flamethrower to be a lifesaver a few times.

The Combi on the MB isn't a game changer though, since it always had the cheap Shotgun anyways (if you wanted a cheap one for linking). And its not like the Shang Ji were they get a Combi-LFT, so on a solo MB the Multi is still a good choose to consider, especially for the ARO bust it gives such a solo.

From what I got though, Multi rifles will be cheaper, which means the MB gets cheaper! I think I read its now 40 points!

And 4-4 MOV, which really makes for a game changer!

Pain Train, choo, choo!

Errhile wrote:And 4-4 MOV, which really makes for a game changer!

Pain Train, choo, choo!

Hmm i thought the 4-4 MOV is only for the OP:I scenarios. Is it certain that MB will get 4-4 with N3?

I'm not convinced that this means that the brigada will get combi rifles. I seem to remember that those concept art sheets always have that faction's combi rifle there, for reference, even if the unit has no combi rifle option. But perhaps that's wrong.

wackenandy wrote:

Errhile wrote:And 4-4 MOV, which really makes for a game changer!

Pain Train, choo, choo!

Hmm i thought the 4-4 MOV is only for the OP:I scenarios. Is it certain that MB will get 4-4 with N3?

I dobut it would be any different in full rules. Otherwise you'd need separate stat lists for O:I, and separate (and vastly different) for the main rules.
Besides, weren't they called Mobile Brigada...?

As for confirmation - nope, no confirmation. Just a whisper - I hear it in my Ghost

Errhile wrote:

wackenandy wrote:

Errhile wrote:And 4-4 MOV, which really makes for a game changer!

Pain Train, choo, choo!

Hmm i thought the 4-4 MOV is only for the OP:I scenarios. Is it certain that MB will get 4-4 with N3?

I dobut it would be any different in full rules. Otherwise you'd need separate stat lists for O:I, and separate (and vastly different) for the main rules.
Besides, weren't they called Mobile Brigada...?

As for confirmation - nope, no confirmation. Just a whisper - I hear it in my Ghost

Ah ok, well it would be a blast if they go for 4-4 MOV i would play a link of them everytime^^.

As a mainly Bakunin player i still struggle with making a decent list in Corregidor, erverything except the Alguaciles looks so slow.

There are just 3 Link Teams possible in Corregidor anyway.
Algulaciles, Wildcats and the Brigada...

I wonder what impact the MB buff and cost reduction will have on the other Corregidor HI...the Gecko.
When I had the impression my (~200pts] list was in need of some HI, I put a Gecko in...MB just didn't cut it with its costs, slow MOV and the awesome Gecko-Mini...but now...the opposite might be the case. MB getting cheaper, flexible weapon-loadouts more important, MOV buffed, no need for an extra engineer, easier to get into cover, linkable and also an awesome design...I see hard times for me Geckos coming.

The MB was never bad, it always was a reasonable choice. The Geckos are still a lot tougher. And who nows they might get some kind of buff, we don't know yet.

The Uhlan seems to have lot his Mountain terrain, so the same might go for the Gecko. The Rules for TAGs in space were really iffy at best anyways.

Keep in mind that Gecko has other advantages than Mobile Brigada.

Gecko is tougher (ARM 5, W 3), packs two weapons (one being a heavy-target-stopper: either Panzerfaust or Blitzen) to choose form, and is nominally a TAG - which means you can field REMs with it, and that it will be getting a lot of enemy's attention.
It is also bigger, and can be Posessed by a Hacker.

Of course - I haven't seen the revised stats fr a Gecko, plus not knowing what is changed in the rules, I cannot really say how different it becomes...


But definitely I'll be fielding a Pain Train more often!

Well...the more I ponder about the rumored and released information about N3, and if I haden't already invested in Corregidor, I would tend to wait with going with Corregidor until the whole N3 shebang is over and done.

Aikuchi wrote:Well...the more I ponder about the rumored and released information about N3, and if I haden't already invested in Corregidor, I would tend to wait with going with Corregidor until the whole N3 shebang is over and done.

Why?

The way I see it Corregidor is getting its teeth kicked in with N3 - at least based on the current rumors and released Intel on N3.
So, considering the question of the thread starter what to combine best for Corregidor as a starter, I'd advise him to wait and see if there are going to be some profile changes and new synergies within Corregidor.

But I have to admit, my current view on CJC might be mulled by a not so firm grasp on the rules anyway. Mabe I see it all wrong, maybe it ain't that bad...dunno...but Aguaciles getting Cubes, CC getting hugely buffed while CJC lacks that departement despite some characters, all HI getting buffed to 4-4 like Hac Tao or Sogarat( as far as I understand Bostria ), climbing plus is not that Special anymore, Repeater-units are becoming a liability, the feared HMG Intruder is getting castrated, in Corregidor nonexisting, grenadelobbing, warbands getting buffed, LFT ( according to rumor ) is no direct hit weapon anymore, new AD3 rules ...don't see Corregidor on the winnig side there...
Maybe I Need some reasoning...maybe just a hug, maybe I just Need to wait till all the rules and profiles are revealed...
( Edit: I just got a case of tunnel vision. I'm sure there are some Sectorials that are hit the same way. )

Easy there, compadre.

First, the Mobile Brigada are getting the 4-4 MOV treatment. Which isn't a blanket adjustment to all HI, as it seems.
But now, they will be mobile And, likely, cheaper than before.

Cubes on Algulaciles? That's a problem only when fighting the CA, and only if they have some expensive units in the field. So, for me, most of the time just a window dressing.

HMG Intruder castrated? Whoa, there. Hush it or he'll come up and show you who's castrated here, amigo ;) With long range, he's likely to be as effective as before, and for me he was too slow anyway to take the fight to the enemy.

Climbing Plus is still special - they moved like C+ in the O:I only when they moved on ladders.

I'll bet that DTWs like LFT will remain auto-hit. Or at least, get huge to-hit bonus like the shotguns.

There's the yet-unspecified balance to be thrown in for MI in general - and we have some of the best MI around: Wildcats, Hellcats and Intruders.

As for Repeaters becoming a liability - where you got that from...?

Also, I wouldn't bet on Corregidor not getting anything new to balance it better. Hassassins are getting the Govad, aren't they? They were missing a basic, inexpensive LI, and from the weapons package it seems Govad will be just it...

All in all, hold your horses, and wait for N3 to be officially released.

See, CB are apparently consummate masters in letting the fanatic peat boil in its own sauce, fuelled with wildest rumors possible.
They are not GW, however. CB's Holy Grail doesn't seem to be "sell as many minis for the newest faction as possible, then switch to another, rinse, repeat" but "make the game better and more balanced".

Cubes - this allows the use of Command Tokens to re-roll failed Doctor/paramedic rolls on the trooper. Also we have no information on how Sepsitor is changing but I think the chances of it staying the same as now are slim given all the talk about wanting the reactive player to always have a chance to do something.

We've not seen anything that makes CC substantially easier to reach, just that it does more damage once it happens. There's nothing in that that makes Corrgidor noticeably weaker. As now, smoke grenades and camo will presumably be the main ways to get to CC and Corregidor has more fire ammo and MSV2 than anyone else.

HI movement getting buffed includes Corregidor's Mobile Brigada, who also appear to be getting cheaper.

Climbing Plus is free, just look at the points cost of the standard Zonds to other factions' Remotes.

This is the first I've heard about Repeaters becoming a liability, do you have any more details?

The Intruder HMG is still one of the best units in the game from 16-32", it's just less good at close-quarters battle. Well, apart from having Grenades which look like they're going to be freaking awesome. With a bit of luck the points drop on the MSR will make the awesome Intruder Sniper cheap enough to be worth fielding.

If you mean smoke grenade Warbands, Intruders are again the answer. And the basic Intruder gains quite a bit from extended Combi and Grenade ranges. Actual offensive Grenades are pretty rare on current units, the only Warbands I can think of that have them are Wulvers, Dog Warriors/Cameronians and of course McMurrough who Corregidor can take themselves.

The only reference I've come across to DTWs no longer being auto-hit weapons was somebody wish-listing on the Infinity forums which progressed via Chinese Whispers across the net into being an actual rumour. There's been nothing from CB themselves.

AD3 rules appear to mean that your Hellcats can never land off-table and in any case applies to all uses of AD3.

So no, I'm not seeing Corregidor getting kicked in the teeth. Intruders in particular get a substantial boost from the Combi range increase and from Surprise Shot.

I am pretty certain, that despite all changes each sectorial will be just as viable as before. There might be some Sectorials that aren't on par when it comes down to ITS14, but thats changing anyways and people still like and play those sectorials, despite being more difficult than average. So if you enjoy playing the hard asses of Corregidor it doesn't matter in which setting, they always will rock! And since they got pretty new minis, you can just dive into it and get what you want, except maybe those old Alguaciles and the Bowling Ball Head HMG Intruder.

And CC being good doesn't matter if you fight against an army of flamethrowers, does it?

So, no one went for the hug...reasoning it is then
Where do I start?...hold my horses? Ha! Nevvvar! They are proud animals that deserve to run free and untamed! Power to the horses!

- HI MOV buff is, according to a statement made by Bostria, applied to all power-armor-units
- repeaters are, according to a statement made by Bostria concerning the new hacking rules, hackable.

All those AP/DA/EXP wielding HIs are now getting faster into CC.

All units are now able to climb, even without ladders, it just does cost some orders more presumably, which makes climbing plus less of a special feature.

MSV2 combined with Intruder AVA turns out to be the highest concentration of MSV2 in field?
Hm...( tunnel vision )...okay...( beside that, I'm not a huge fan of the new Intruders...they are ok, equpiment is nice sculpted, but the poses are both more then meh for this unit - my opinion )

BUT, seeing that so experienced players don't see the irks where I see them eases me a bit ( horses are still snuffling aggravated, but they keep themselves to the paddock...for now...on their own free will...)

( Edit: Despite that, my advice to someone who's considering buing into infinity - and who does not have a looks-driven consume behavior like me - is still: Wait till all rules and profiles are revealed...proxy till then. )

Dudes could always climb without ladders though.