Preventing Yu-Jing alpha strike

[MrHappySunshine]

I play Aleph, and have just gotten into a morat force, one of my common opponents plays yu-jing, I think the Japanese sectorial.
He usually runs a link team, and a bunch of camo markers. My usual build is myrmidons and phoenix.
Anyway, our games almost always go like this: If he goes first, I get ripped to shreds by a first turn rush from his TO stuff. If I go First I blow him of the table with Pheonixes rockets and a smart missile.
I'm looking for tactics that can prevent him smashing me when he goes first. But it is hard to fit huge amounts into an elite Aleph list.

[Claudius Sol]

As a JSA player, maybe I can give some insight.

First, you'll know he has no Aerial Deployment. The best he gets is Superior Infiltration on Oniwaban.

Make sure you're bringing some MSV. The Agema, Asura, and Spitfire Deva work well for this.
The Asura doesn't even suffer the "Surprise" modifier that normally comes with shooting from camo marker state.

Chain Rifles, Heavy Flamethrowers, and other direct template weapons are additionally good counters for the Oniwaban. It doesn't natively have smoke or stealth, so the approach can be guarded against. Most ALEPH infantry has a Nanopulser, so don't forget to utilize it.

What points level are you playing at?

[MrHappySunshine]

200 usually, I can go up to 300 but 200 just tends to feel better.
and ye, nano pulsars! I keep forgetting I have those!! Dammit that would if made a big difference today ><
what about mines? nagas are pretty handy with either minelayer or monofilaments

[VisOne]

You need the Minelayer to prevent an Alpha Strike the Monomines are useless if you don't have them out at the start of the game.

Total reaction remotes are a solid investment as are models with 360 visors like the Thorakitai.

They are even better in A.S.S when you take a 4 man Thorakitai Link Team thats getting SSL2 and has at least a LRL in it or maybe more like 1 x Spitfire (Nesair Alke) and 1 or 2 LRL (Thrasymedes + normal Thorakitai LRL) is pretty hard to deal with for under 80 points and somewhere between 2 or 2.5 SWC thats allot of board control and deterrent!

MSV is a must and with access to allot of MSV 2 and even the Asuras MSV 3 you should be about to best even a TO rush.

Ensure you deploy your models to generate ARO's so they can't close without taking some sort of hits or at least Discover rolls.

Take a look at your terrain you might be playing a little too dense at table too if your opponent is closing with you on the first turn without any ARO's being generated when you have put people out to generate ARO's than you 99% sure you are playing too dense with your LoS/LoF blocking terrain. Lots of cover granting scatter terrain = good! LOTS of tall or wide LoS/LoF blocking terrain = bad!

[Errhile]

Since I do also have JSA regular oponent (who prefers horde armies, using large bodies of Keisotsu to power up his active models), and got my share of sound beatings from him...

Yes, Direct Templates are excellent (plus Flamethrowers really shine there!). Especially Mines and (to a lesser extent) E-Maulers, if you have access to them (as they will detonate against a Camo Marker), though, as mentioned before, without Minelayer thay aren't effective vs. alpha stike. Ditto MSVs. Total Reaction is always nice to have, though it is likely to be one of the first targets for a TO camo model.

However, what is crucial IMO, is deployment - Oniwabans, much like Hassassin Fidays, can kill almost any target, but they are not very Order-effective in that. Even if infiltrated close to yor lines, you can use deployment to spread your models so it will take the ninja a lot of Orders to attack many of them.

Also, be prepared to lose some models. Have alternate attack options and vectors (AD will be useful here). If you can afford it, have backup Orders in your second combat group.
Also, if your oponent moves first, it is totally worth it to spend a Command Token and deprive him of 2 Orders first turn. It really makes a difference.

You have to withstand his alpha strike. Yes, this means you will, probably, take a few hits - the trick is to roll with them, not let them knock you down, and then swing back hard once it is your turn. There are two tactics good against horde-like armies:

1. Order deprivation. Knock out as many cheerleaders as you can, and the heavy hitters won't be able to do much. The problem here lies in your own Order count - move into position, attack, and hope it works - and a whole Order is gone. Wise usage of Terminal Template weapons helps this a bit. Deploying to have concentrated ARO power at your fingertips helps too.

2. Knocking out the teeth. If there are only a handful of his offensive models, counter them directly. Take them down. There is a good chance you won't have to look for them too long - as they are his expensive heavy hitters, they will have to be near your lines to act anyway. Knock them down, and he will be deprived of attack options - cheerleaders can link and be pretty dangerous, true, but they have to be equipped with heavy weapons for that. And there are still ways to deal with them!

[Groundworks]

Some good advice here already.
I'd say a couple of things.


1. Shinobu and the Oniwaban will likely kill anything they reach. Try and ensure that in the process of engaging and killing one of your models they will take AROs that will make this a suicide attack.

2. Layer your deployment so that your valuable models are protected by your cheapest.

These TO units you are facing units are 40pts plus and are fragile. As previously stated they wont survive vs templates and visors so the aim is to limit their options to:

A. revealing to kill a sub 20pt model and likely die in the process.
B. spending 2+ orders moving through multiple discover AROs to reach a target on parity with their points value or that is crucial to you from a tactical standpoint

This should make their alpha strike more challenging to pull off

Oh and don't forget to use that command token to take a couple of orders from a 8-9 order group at the beginning of the game. It can be the difference between life and death vs this style of list

[WookieeGunner]

Chain Rifles, Heavy Flamethrowers, and other direct template weapons are additionally good counters for the Oniwaban. It doesn't natively have smoke or stealth, so the approach can be guarded against. Most ALEPH infantry has a Nanopulser, so don't forget to utilize it.

What points level are you playing at?

Um actual Mr. Vroom-Vroom, our most humble Oniwaban does have stealth. It is conferred via his extensive training in the Martial Arts.

[chromedog]

Stealth is granted to the oniwaban via both Martial arts AND the camouflage skill.

So yes, he DOES natively have Stealth.

[Claudius Sol]

Hahaha, I keep forgetting that Stealth is it's own little rule thing now.

My bad! I was meaning something along the lines of Impersonation, though I guess that's also not entirely right, since they have TO Camo state.

[alexb83]

If you anticipate a lot of TO infiltration, you can do a lot worse than spending 32-or-so points on your Army's sensor bot.

Straight up, they are +6 to discover anything camouflaged so they're good for discovering anything walking towards you if you don't get the first turn. Delay ARO with your big guns and punt a discover with your remotes.

Using two and assuming you get the firs tturn, you can combined-order move them into range of the midfield, perhaps dropping off a few sniffers on the way. Combined order (short skill) sensor with them when ready. Any TO/hidden deployment in their ZOC or the ZOC of the sniffers is revealed on WIP+6. It works through walls so you can do it from behind hard cover.

The enemy also cannot re-camo inside the ZOC of the sniffers you put down or your sensor bots, so it can offer a bit of residual defense to your half of the table.

Those bots are also excellent fast FOs and give you the option to triangulate fire on pesky camo models. Combi rifle fire at TO in cover at only -3 to hit is nothing to sniff at. Especially if you can throw 6 shots at once.



Otherwise, yes - deployment with overlapping fields of fire.

Chaff units of cheap warband or LI are also good to speed-bump them.
I once got alpha-struck by a speculo killer. She killed guided missile bot, but I engaged her with a nearby 10 point LI to hold her in the engaged state with their corpse. Cue epic lightsaber duel when Miranda Ashcroft waltzed into combat with the unsuspecting speculo who couldn't see out of B2B combat with a 10 point corpse.

[Pierzasty]

It was the Speccy's fault for not using the monosword then.

[alexb83]

ISTR he was trying to finesse a coup-de-grace to get one of his hidden objectives, so he used a pistol.

But yes, a 10 point corpse can seriously hold up or otherwise disadvantage an expensive infiltrator/impersonator if they're not careful.

[Groundworks]

Vs the speculo you might even do well to shoot into the combat at that point if you have high burst and +3 on your range band

[alexb83]

I think the only unit I had near was Miranda Ashcroft with a Boarding shotgun - so B3 at +6 to hit.

But the monosword on monosword combat was too much to pass up.

[Groundworks]

Well when you can beat them at their own game the victory as all the sweeter!