Data Sphere

To all Data Sphere "You Write the Lore" contest participants,

We regret to inform you that Antenociti's Workshop has pulled support for this contest as hosted on Data Sphere. Here is a quote from Jed Norton of AW:

"AW no longer regards DataSphere as capable of the objectivity and impartiality required in running this competition, so we will be moving it to another supporting Infinity forum for them to complete it. We apologise for any inconvenience caused: no submissions have been lost and all will be carried over to the new supporting competition manager."

At time of this publication, there are no details on which forum will be hosting the contest or if any guidelines including the July 31 deadline will be subject to change. Updates will be available through Corvus Belli's official forum and Antenociti's Workshop Facebook page.

Seems like Jed is somehow huffy by CB's "forum incident".
I really wish he could get over it and stay with the community even when CB's doesn't behave professional.

Harlekin wrote:Seems like Jed is somehow huffy by CB's "forum incident".
I really wish he could get over it and stay with the community even when CB's doesn't behave professional.

That was my first thought as well. If anyone is going to be upset at how this was handled, it should be dealing with CB, not DS.

But now I'm hearing that both AW and Warsenal talked to DS and weren't happy with the terms of getting involved over here. A little transparency on what those requirements are might be nice. It seems a bit too coincidental that both of them would have a problem with whatever agreement was required.

macfergusson wrote:

Harlekin wrote:Seems like Jed is somehow huffy by CB's "forum incident".
I really wish he could get over it and stay with the community even when CB's doesn't behave professional.

That was my first thought as well. If anyone is going to be upset at how this was handled, it should be dealing with CB, not DS.

But now I'm hearing that both AW and Warsenal talked to DS and weren't happy with the terms of getting involved over here. A little transparency on what those requirements are might be nice. It seems a bit too coincidental that both of them would have a problem with whatever agreement was required.

Disclaimer: I have no idea. Conjecture: perhaps the lack of exclusivity in Data Sphere ruffled a few feathers?

Penemue wrote:Disclaimer: I have no idea. Conjecture: perhaps the lack of exclusivity in Data Sphere ruffled a few feathers?

Yeah I'm not keen on making judgments on all this without more information. A little more communication all-round would have made this whole transition much smoother.

"Seems like" is not "is" - and it's only my opinion which I have from the little info we get about the "forum incident"...
All this stuff really makes me sad. For me CB really f****d things up quite a lot...

I can agree that I don't think the sudden cancellation and removal of the official forum was a bad decision.

Though, I think the actual "bad" part of it was the immediacy with which it occurred. Two months? That's hardly any time to get a new set of contracts written out with due notification and reasonable time schedules for everyone involved.

I don't fault CB for closing their forums.
I fault them for how they handled it.

Claudius Sol wrote:I don't fault CB for closing their forums.
I fault them for how they handled it.

Yup.

Based on the post on DS announcing they were taking over as the "official unofficial" forum and other bits I have gleaned here and there, I gather this:

• Partners had a private subforum as part of their partnership deal with CB.
• Partners had no advance warning that the forum was closing.
• CB is paying DS to help support the forum.
• DS is not honoring existing partnership deals with CB, since they were not party to those deals.
• DS is offering a separate partnership deal to get the same private boards on this forum, however they are charging for the privilege.
• Partners feel like CB reneged on their deal and DS should not be charging them extra to maintain their existing level of treatment.
• Partners may believe that CB's payments to DS should have included private forum spaces for them.

Really, it just seems like a break down in communication between:
- Corvus Belli
- Data Sphere / Warcors
- Official Partners

Jed is proclaiming everywhere that I've placed very high demands on a partnership. The truth is: I never once called out a number. I flat out asked him: "would you like to know a number, before you judge?" Nope, he had his opinion ready.

Both Jed and Warsenal sent me a curt PM saying: "Open up a subforum will ya?"

And I was like: well, I've reserved those for companies that support DS. Are you interested in doing just that for a small fee? For which you'll get banners on the blog and forum space?

And the apocalypse ensues. Because apparently I was asking outrageous things. No counter offers, no nothing.

More truth: the reason the partnership thing for DS is vague, is because it's not been hammered out yet. Like I said: I haven't even mentioned solid numbers. Never got the chance, with CB's pacing in all this. The companies who are partners right now have contributed to DS by providing us with stuff to review, some stuff for the staff we're looking at... you know, getting skin in the game that is this community.

The deal, from my point of view, remains this: we want to make Data Sphere fun for all parties involved. The community gets a fun and laid back place to post. Companies get a place to share their stuff, both on the blog and forum, and get sales from that. And finally the staff has fun running DS, while occasionally being rewarded for their efforts.

That last thing: rewarding the staff. That's what it's about for me. That, and maybe organising contests, organising events... I don't know yet. Point in case: we need money to do it. That's why I opted for the partnership thing to generate some cash.

If people have a huge problem with that, I'd love to hear the alternatives. Paid memberships like Warseer?

Paychecks for the staff and server maintenance are kind of important. I'm familiar with that. I take it that CB's financial sponsorship wasn't enough to be considered to cover additional partnerships, and as ToadChild mentioned already it was never discussed between DS and CB.

Arachas wrote:Jed is proclaiming everywhere that I've placed very high demands on a partnership. The truth is: I never once called out a number. I flat out asked him: "would you like to know a number, before you judge?" Nope, he had his opinion ready.

Both Jed and Warsenal sent me a curt PM saying: "Open up a subforum will ya?"

And I was like: well, I've reserved those for companies that support DS. Are you interested in doing just that for a small fee? For which you'll get banners on the blog and forum space?

And the apocalypse ensues. Because apparently I was asking outrageous things. No counter offers, no nothing.

More truth: the reason the partnership thing for DS is vague, is because it's not been hammered out yet. Like I said: I haven't even mentioned solid numbers. Never got the chance, with CB's pacing in all this. The companies who are partners right now have contributed to DS by providing us with stuff to review, some stuff for the staff we're looking at... you know, getting skin in the game that is this community.

The deal, from my point of view, remains this: we want to make Data Sphere fun for all parties involved. The community gets a fun and laid back place to post. Companies get a place to share their stuff, both on the blog and forum, and get sales from that. And finally the staff has fun running DS, while occasionally being rewarded for their efforts.

That last thing: rewarding the staff. That's what it's about for me. That, and maybe organising contests, organising events... I don't know yet. Point in case: we need money to do it. That's why I opted for the partnership thing to generate some cash.

If people have a huge problem with that, I'd love to hear the alternatives. Paid memberships like Warseer?

This is enlightening. Thank you.

From the sounds of it, you'd be completely open to haggling with the various interested parties? I can see why, depending on distances involved, certain companies wouldn't like shipping their product out for review, what with sunk costs in shipping.

Paid membership for the forums is not going to improve the situation. I can understand that things are getting a little heated, but there's no need for aggressiveness in this matter, right? Certainly, we're all capable of discussing this is a calm and collected manner. These statements were not directed towards anyone. I'd just like to nip this in the bud before we end up with complete flame wars. I think all of you are pretty awesome people and would like to keep this (mis?)conception for as long as I can.

It seems to me that CB carries most of the blame on this situation. I'm not meaning to tar/feather any of the DS operators.

ToadChild wrote:It seems to me that CB carries most of the blame on this situation. I'm not meaning to tar/feather any of the DS operators.

Yup.

Well obviously CB is watching and aware of the situation now, if they weren't before. Guess we'll just have to see what happens, as they don't want it discussed any further.

@Arachas: Thanks for the info. Sounds very reasonable for me and I (still) don't get the stress, AW and Warsenal have with DS...
There probably is too much going on in some dark corners.

macfergusson wrote:Well obviously CB is watching and aware of the situation now, if they weren't before. Guess we'll just have to see what happens, as they don't want it discussed any further.

Koni is.

I saw Interruptor on last night as well.....

They done f'ed up.

FatherKnowsBest wrote:

macfergusson wrote:Well obviously CB is watching and aware of the situation now, if they weren't before. Guess we'll just have to see what happens, as they don't want it discussed any further.

Koni is.

I saw Interruptor on last night as well.....

They done f'ed up.

I'm amazed that they let it get this far without trying to step in and resolve the situation. Fast action could have prevented a lot of what I expect will now be bad blood...

Exactly.

To be fair, Arachas knows what's up. He may not have the details of the agreements, but he knows the partners pay CB for privileges. Being that they are now funded by CB (to what extent, we don't know), shouldn't he have checked with CB before going straight to discussing fees? Fees that he admitted would be used to expand, not just maintain DS, and could very well be double charging the partners.

That said, Jed could have waited for some resolution before pulling the contest.

Todd wrote:To be fair, Arachas knows what's up. He may not have the details of the agreements, but he knows the partners pay CB for privileges. Being that they are now funded by CB (to what extent, we don't know), shouldn't he have checked with CB before going straight to discussing fees? Fees that he admitted would be used to expand, not just maintain DS, and could very well be double charging the partners.

That said, Jed could have waited for some resolution before pulling the contest.

It's not the responsibility of DS to honor agreements made by CB unless it was stated ahead of time.

All of this should have been discussed and deals inked before we forumites even knew the old one was being closed.

As a business, DS is providing X service to CB for Y recompense. You don't throw VIP treatment in for free for a third party just because they pitched a fit at you. (Not that Jed shouldn't have been upset, but he should have been upset with CB, not DS.)

Arachas wrote:The deal, from my point of view, remains this: we want to make Data Sphere fun for all parties involved. The community gets a fun and laid back place to post. Companies get a place to share their stuff, both on the blog and forum, and get sales from that. And finally the staff has fun running DS, while occasionally being rewarded for their efforts.

wow! That is so untrue. Nice propaganda though.

Both I and Bill were put off by you Hendrick, not your forum ... you, personally. Specifically your attitude towards us.

Both of us said the same thing for the same reason: "No" because it was so arrogantly demanded by you.

So dont blame anything else, this is your creation, this whole "official infinity forum" thing has clearly gone to your head and you've taken a massive power trip.

FTI Arachas demanded to know what we had done for DataSphere prior to CBs announcement, we said 'give you an exclusive interview and an exclusive competition' he laughed at us and said that was "nothing"... that "wasn't enough" to even qualify for consideration on Datasphere.

So we pulled it - its "nothing" after all, so somebody else can have that "nothing" and Arachas wont miss it... nor will the community - because Arachas now controls the community after all.

Make you own mind up about Arachas when two partners make the same decision for the same reason at the same time despite being on different continents.

Looking at you Arachas, just you.

oh, and todd:

Arachas knows nothing about our partnership arrangements with CB, dont credit him with knowledge he doesn't have - lets face it, hes has been claiming this place it the new official Infinity forum for days now - and we all now know how that turned out.

This cancelation is one mans creation and that man is Arachas.

@Mac,

Sure, it's technically not his problem.

Arachas understands that there's a good chance the situation would require CB's partners to double pay (he said it himself). In my mind, that puts the ethical responsibility on him to resolve the situation. His solution was to go for the extra money rather than discussing the arrangement with CB first. He also made it clear that it's not about keeping the lights on, but expanding their site.

In the end, CB looks like a bunch of dummies, Jed looks like a crotchety old man throwing a fit, but DS looks greedy/shady.

That said, I hope they work everything out anyway.

I'm seriously dumbfounded by the lack of professionality in all of this from CB.

If they have discussed this with their partners (AW, WarSenal etc.) before, they obviously did it very poorly. If they didn't: what the fuck? Both versions are unprofessional, and I fully understand how the folks from AW and WarSenal are unhappy with the way things are handled.

What I don't understand is the rage pointed at DS. As a company interested in promoting your business you don't just get forum space - you pay for it. That AW wields the "but we don't want to pay twice"-stick is understandable, but actually not the fault of the DS people. CB is to blame for handling the whole affair poorly, not DS.

P.S.: This whole thing starts to look more and more like kindergarten, for most parties involved...

Short sighted as they were, perhaps CB assumed that by funding DS and proclaiming it their official sight, they would naturally honor CB's partnerships?

Naive? Maybe.

Todd wrote:To be fair, Arachas knows what's up. He may not have the details of the agreements, but he knows the partners pay CB for privileges. Being that they are now funded by CB (to what extent, we don't know), shouldn't he have checked with CB before going straight to discussing fees? Fees that he admitted would be used to expand, not just maintain DS, and could very well be double charging the partners.

That said, Jed could have waited for some resolution before pulling the contest.

Looking back, I should have hammered out this part of the deal with CB beforehand. Would have saved us all a lot of stress. The whole partner thing just wasn't an issue then: I trusted CB to handle their own part, while they ensured us we'd have no obligations to anyone.

The plan was never to double charge. I feel like I didn't even the chance to explain that. Why would I want to "extort" (as it's been so eloquently put by some members of the community) anyone? Really? The idea we'd be doing this for the money... it's just preposterous. This forum is how I choose to spend a part of my free time. It's how the team members spend their free time. It's not supposed to be an addendum to anyone's paycheck!

I must say I really appreciate the fact that you guys appreciate the transparency. There is nothing to hide here (except perhaps exact numbers when it comes to money and specific info regarding arrangements made, which are simply sensitive topics).

Todd wrote:Short sighted as they were, perhaps CB assumed that by funding DS and proclaiming it their official sight, they would naturally honor CB's partnerships?

Naive? Maybe.

No, after I mentioned it to them (also mentioning we were in the process of setting up our own partner system) CB specifically stated we didn't need to worry about them.

macfergusson wrote:
As a business, DS is providing X service to CB for Y recompense. You don't throw VIP treatment in for free for a third party just because they pitched a fit at you. (Not that Jed shouldn't have been upset, but he should have been upset with CB, not DS.)

Nobody wanted VIP treatment, it was never even raised as an issue.

oh, sorry, that isnt true - Arachas expected we treat HIM like a VIP, I forgot that bit.

All of this is about Arachas' attitude, not CB< not datasphere, not contracts - its the attitude of one man on a power trip and his new belief that he can do whatever he wants to without any consequences.

Well hes already fubar;d that competition for the community and hes so thoroughly peed' off two of CBs official (no, they really are this time!) partners they want nothing to do with Arachas or his forum.

what does that tell you?

Antenociti wrote:

Arachas wrote:oh, and todd:

Arachas knows nothing about our partnership arrangements with CB, dont credit him with knowledge he doesn't have - lets face it, hes has been claiming this place it the new official Infinity forum for days now - and we all now know how that turned out.

This cancelation is one mans creation and that man is Arachas.

He knows/assumes at least as much as the rest of us, that the official partners pay CB for certain privileges, and forum presence could very well be one of those. That's what matters to me. Basically admitting that he's aware that you could be double charged for the same thing, but is going to take the money anyway, because that's CB's problem, isn't cool in my opinion. Is it terrible? Naw, but it's not cool.

Darnok wrote:
What I don't understand is the rage pointed at DS. As a company interested in promoting your business you don't just get forum space - you pay for it. That AW wields the "but we don't want to pay twice"-stick is understandable, but actually not the fault of the DS people. CB is to blame for handling the whole affair poorly, not DS.

P.S.: This whole thing starts to look more and more like kindergarten, for most parties involved...

there is so much misinformation in that post it is incredible!

Got to give Arachas credit, he is running a superb propaganda campaign.

Still, cant change the facts that the competition is cancelled because of him, nor DS, not Aaron, just Hendrick, and that neither us nor Warsenal want anything to do with DataSphere ...also...and only... because of Arachas' attitude and approach.

There is no other factor involved.