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CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 18th, 2014, 9:17 amby Schadlez
So while the "Official" Infinity forums close up shop, and DataSphere becomes the "Unofficial Official" forum, will all of CB's Official Partners gain their own free sub-forum like they had at Corvus Home Base?
I always enjoyed the direct news from Micro Art Studios and the like, and interaction with them. I see Customeeple has a sub-forum, but none of the others.
I hope they all get one, if this is supposed to be "The Place To Be!"
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 18th, 2014, 9:56 amby Oreet
I see that at leasy some already have sub forums, and since this isn't a forum run by CB we also have sub forums for other great manufacturers.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 18th, 2014, 10:30 amby Spears
Arachas wrote:First of all: thanks for all the compliments guys. Here's to a new and better forum!
Second: about partnerships. I have it black-on-white from CB that Data Sphere is to remain completely independent, with no regard whatsoever to CB's own rules and partnerships.
That means what whatever deal CB has with its partners, it doesn't extend to us. I'm not in any way obliged to provide forum space to said partners.
There is a financial part of the deal where CB pays for the bigger fatter server I've had to rent in order to cope with traffic. And then there's some benefits as to working closely with CB, some of which you'll see on the blog (i.e. early info about upcoming releases as well as new model previews, etc).
It's very clear, for both parties, that this financial relationship does not include any kind of obligation of Data Sphere towards Corvus Belli. So that settles that.
Now, as Zac has said about financial aid: you can have both. Data Sphere already has a few partners, which area featured on the blog homepage and have their own forum space. We've made our own deals with these companies and CB's partners are welcome to contact us and get in on the same deals.
However, Data Sphere has always been about giving "unofficial" third party terrain makers to place to share their products and updates with the community. That won't change: despite giving some companies more real estate on the site, we'll never ask the other ones to leave. It's that easy.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 19th, 2014, 2:33 pmby Guges
Would like to see Antenocitis get a sub forum. They're hands down my favorite partner CB has.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 19th, 2014, 6:32 pmby McNamara
I like a Hasselfree sub-forum please!
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 20th, 2014, 1:09 amby Mob of Blondes
HF subforum? Don't worry, we mention them as needed, or any other brand.
To start, we have a thread
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=778 (ignore the title, it evolved to "anything HS that can be used for Infinity").
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 20th, 2014, 10:44 amby McNamara
As you may have noticed, I post in that thread all the time.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 20th, 2014, 3:58 pmby Magno
So, essentially, these forums are a pay-to-play arrangement.
It's independent, as long as you pay up?
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 20th, 2014, 5:18 pmby wuji
Yeah, I spoke with one of the cats from Customeeple, not only that but they have to pay over at the Spanish site as well, infinitywarcors.com.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 20th, 2014, 7:03 pmby Arachas
Does independence mean we can't make deals with companies - forum and advertising space in return for a small fee to keep Data Sphere running?
All companies get a place to post, those who commit to this format get better real estate. I don't see the wrong in that, honestly.
As for the official partners - they were never part of the deal (or talks) between ourselves and Corvus Belli. As such we're not obliged to offer them anything, though we'd welcome any and all of them as partners (like Customeeple!). And they're more than welcome to post in the "Other Retailers" section, no strings attached.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 21st, 2014, 3:07 pmby Magno
It still sounds a little like extortion.
Isn't DataSphere already getting some perks for these forums via CB?
Early access, exclusive news, etc.. The pay for real-estate would be more for the blogs and front page visibility. The forums probably shouldn't be the place to ask for compensation.
When we helped set the forums up, trial and feedback, the mission statement back then was to provide a place for all terrain discussions and not favor one over the other.
If companies want visibility for the product and ask for front page or special visibility, that's one thing, but for forum discussions, that seems wrong.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 21st, 2014, 3:33 pmby Harlekin
Indeed, Magno, independance is the main USP for DS.
Sparing some webspace for some companies is absolutely fine with me as this gives those the chance to proove to us how much effort and time they spend with their Infinity projects.
And other non-official gaming forums also do some advertising - and I'd prefer adverts for Infinity stuff over Viagra and online gaming.
CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 21st, 2014, 10:08 pmby CoveredInFish
As long as the official partners of CB can post freely in the general forums I can't see something wrong here (maybe how CB handled this, but what do I know)
I really doubt that all partners had enough forum traffic that their sub forums were mandatory.
If they want a sub forum they probably can get one here too, so even that is not a problem.
It might not be the most friendly and loving way to handle all this, but it's okay.
Maybe telling about those deals openly, avoiding secret deals would suit an independent forum better, but That's still the call if DS and their partners.
Just my 5c ...
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 21st, 2014, 11:41 pmby WookieeGunner
Magno wrote:So, essentially, these forums are a pay-to-play arrangement.
It's independent, as long as you pay up?
Nah, it's more the Freemium model. You can play for free, but you can pay for extras.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 22nd, 2014, 5:43 pmby Antenociti
Schadlez wrote:So while the "Official" Infinity forums close up shop, and DataSphere becomes the "Unofficial Official" forum, will all of CB's Official Partners gain their own free sub-forum like they had at Corvus Home Base?
I always enjoyed the direct news from Micro Art Studios and the like, and interaction with them. I see Customeeple has a sub-forum, but none of the others.
I hope they all get one, if this is supposed to be "The Place To Be!"
Hendrik who runs DS has made it very clear that we are not welcome here unless we pay them.
We had a big issue with that when it was claimed that DataSphere was
'the new official infinity forum'.It transpires, however, that they are not...so that problem goes away...they can demand what they want to as they are not the emplacement for the CB forums, nor are they the new official Infinity forums.
We, however, wont be represented here as its been made very clear that without either cash or gratuities we aren't needed or welcome here.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 22nd, 2014, 7:25 pmby Todd
Antenociti wrote:Hendrik who runs DS has made it very clear that we are not welcome here unless we pay them.
Just to be clear, do you mean "not welcome to have your own sub-forum," or "not welcome to post threads advertising your product in say the
other retailers and manufacturers sub-forum?"
While I think both are crappy (I thought DS was about getting away from the official partnerships thing), there is a difference in the degree of crappiness.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 22nd, 2014, 7:57 pmby Claudius Sol
DS gets away from the "official partner" thing by letting anyone willing to put forth some funds get their own sub forum. Not just any and all.
Disclaimer: I don't know what the details of partnership with CB are/were. I don't know how that contract works/worked. I don't know the full details of "sponsorship" with DS.
In both cases, I imagine it was a sum of money paid to Corvus Belli / Data Sphere.
Rights were given to CB's official partners to license their product as "Infinity" products.
An official sub forum was created for CB official partners on the InfinityTheGame website.
For Data Sphere, web space was given to sponsors in the form of blog posts and sub forum(s).
Assuming CB's official partners are still in contract, I'd imagine they could file a breach of contract on CB's part and pursue a new contract that excluded the "sub forum" allowance and request a smaller contract fee to "make up the difference" so to speak. This difference could be what it costs to sponsor Data Sphere?
I don't know. I don't work for CB or DS or any of the official partners or any of DS's sponsors.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 22nd, 2014, 8:14 pmby Harlekin
I blame CB for being responsible for this whole thing going SNAFU -_-
Maybe in Spain internet is something like this:
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 22nd, 2014, 8:49 pmby Michaud
Arachas wrote:Does independence mean we can't make deals with companies - forum and advertising space in return for a small fee to keep Data Sphere running?
All companies get a place to post, those who commit to this format get better real estate. I don't see the wrong in that, honestly.
As for the official partners - they were never part of the deal (or talks) between ourselves and Corvus Belli. As such we're not obliged to offer them anything, though we'd welcome any and all of them as partners (like Customeeple!). And they're more than welcome to post in the "Other Retailers" section, no strings attached.
Don't want to stick my foot too far into my mouth, but if you are the "Official Replacement forum" and are now sponsored by CB, you may not be technically obliged to honor the existing contract between CB and the partner, but its the right thing to do.
Business is business, but that just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 22nd, 2014, 9:00 pmby FatherKnowsBest
Michaud wrote:Arachas wrote:Does independence mean we can't make deals with companies - forum and advertising space in return for a small fee to keep Data Sphere running?
All companies get a place to post, those who commit to this format get better real estate. I don't see the wrong in that, honestly.
As for the official partners - they were never part of the deal (or talks) between ourselves and Corvus Belli. As such we're not obliged to offer them anything, though we'd welcome any and all of them as partners (like Customeeple!). And they're more than welcome to post in the "Other Retailers" section, no strings attached.
Don't want to stick my foot too far into my mouth, but if you are the "Official Replacement forum" and are now sponsored by CB, you may not be technically obliged to honor the existing contract between CB and the partner, but its the right thing to do.
Business is business, but that just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I need to switch over to another theme to like this. OH well.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 22nd, 2014, 9:09 pmby Harlekin
Michaud wrote:Don't want to stick my foot too far into my mouth, but if you are the "Official Replacement forum" and are now sponsored by CB, you may not be technically obliged to honor the existing contract between CB and the partner, but its the right thing to do.
Business is business, but that just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I don't share your point of view. This was the case if CB did manage things accordingly. But CB failed here like never before. They easily could have made some arrangements beforehand, but it seems like it's too late, now.
What a disappointment
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 22nd, 2014, 9:16 pmby Michaud
Harlekin wrote:Michaud wrote:Don't want to stick my foot too far into my mouth, but if you are the "Official Replacement forum" and are now sponsored by CB, you may not be technically obliged to honor the existing contract between CB and the partner, but its the right thing to do.
Business is business, but that just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I don't share your point of view. This was the case if CB did manage things accordingly. But CB failed here like never before. They easily could have made some arrangements beforehand, but it seems like it's too late, now.
What a disappointment
They could have, but seeing that CB dropped the ball, whats to stop DS from extending the olive branch themselves?
There has certainly been damage done to these relationships, but it may still be possible to salvage.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 22nd, 2014, 9:20 pmby Harlekin
DS is a pack of fans doing all the work and having to pay for the servers to host DS.
And there already are other companies who do pay for extra space. Why should DS change their modalities? This would seem rather unfair on behalf on existing partnerships, wouldn't it?
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 22nd, 2014, 9:32 pmby Michaud
Harlekin wrote:DS is a pack of fans doing all the work and having to pay for the servers to host DS.
And there already are other companies who do pay for extra space. Why should DS change their modalities? This would seem rather unfair on behalf on existing partnerships, wouldn't it?
Aside from the money CB pays DS? I won't argue that its the fans doing the work.
There are other companies who pay DS directly for the extra space, sure. But by and large they weren't existing partners with CB. Why should the existing partners pay twice?
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 22nd, 2014, 9:33 pmby Todd
Harlekin wrote:DS is a pack of fans doing all the work and having to pay for the servers to host DS.
And there already are other companies who do pay for extra space. Why should DS change their modalities? This would seem rather unfair on behalf on existing partnerships, wouldn't it?
Perhaps something DS should discuss with its existing partners as they are now funded by CB?
What I'd like to know, is whether DS still falls into the category of fan run site, or has veered more into subcontractor territory.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 22nd, 2014, 9:55 pmby dtjunkie19
So what I am getting from all of this is that this is an issue between CB, DS, and CB's other partners.
Seems like that would suggest that the issue should be dealt with between these parties directly, rather than having multiple public discussions in multiple venues that don't even directly involve CB in the process, but instead include all of the fanatic peat.
The current method sounds like an excellent way to accomplish little except to vent frustration, get everyone mad at everyone else, and solve nothing.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 23rd, 2014, 1:31 amby Il_Marsigliese
it's funny how fast shit hits the fan when "fan made and administrated" gets "the now main source" passing by "sponsorship"...
dunno, it's quite the sour start for the "main-ess" this forum just got, quite an unprofessional quirk by CB, and all this "we are the main shit for Infinity now, we get compensation from top cats for that, but we don't have to oblige to previous deals, cos, you know, we're indie. BUT you can pay again, then you're welcome" it's quite...toxic.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 23rd, 2014, 2:50 amby Mistake Not
So I read a proposal at some point, it was basically 'hey you can post whatever you want in the general distributors' forum or we can work out a deal to get you your own forum, both work no worries' and then I read a whole meltdown? I must've missed a large part of whatever was happening there, which seems to be a common thing these days.
Some intense private conversations involving everyone relevant with some subsequent carefully planned public announcements seem in order to me. Comments disabled on the announcements maybe? Get some of the momentum out of this mad rush into.. madness.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 23rd, 2014, 8:08 amby Errhile
From what I know, any producer is welcomed to post in the "Other Retailers" section. Including official CB partners. This is the free part.
Now, there is the possibility of having premium real estate - company's own subforum. And this part isn't free.
Yes, I agree, CB didn't handled the issue as well as it should, but the deal was that DS is not obligued by CB's agreements with third parites (offical CB's partners).
There are DS partners who pay for the premium real estate. Asking them to pay for something that other companies would be getting for free wouldn't be fair.
Often, when money is involved, people are getting nervous. So, for your information - according to my knowledge, all the money DS gets from its partners and CB is used for upkeep of the forum (paying for the servers). Becoming an "official" (or at least "main") Infinity forum, as a replacement of CB's forum, has generated an amount of traffic that the previous server wasn't able to cope with, and an another - more expensive - was needed.
It was needed to raise funds for it.
Re: CB Official Partners?
Posted:
July 23rd, 2014, 8:23 amby Atzilla
Claudius Sol wrote:Assuming CB's official partners are still in contract, I'd imagine they could file a breach of contract on CB's part and pursue a new contract that excluded the "sub forum" allowance and request a smaller contract fee to "make up the difference" so to speak. This difference could be what it costs to sponsor Data Sphere?
This is the only sane thing to do. It should have happened before announcing the migration, and I hope it's what will happen next.
The coordination of their partners should have been CBs job.
If it's true that DS made their independence part of the deal, they are neither legally nor morally obligued to give free host to CB partners.
Some people seem to misunderstand the concept of independence (hint: it's not an NPO).
Imho the only mistake DS and AW (etc.) made, was making their differences public.