Data Sphere

Hi!

So, at the moment I have exactly zero minis or played games for this game. From what I've read people seem to agree that going for the aesthetics is the way to go at least for "casual" gaming. I'm an ex(ish) 40k gamer tired of the lack skill < army status quo going on there and this game looks...well...amazing.

Anyway. I have 2 questions (and likely many more follow answers).

1. The activation system seems ripe for abuse in the sense that some "godly super unit" just runs around picking out the opponents forces while the tax units just stand there and react to things. Is this so or am I missing something essential. If I'm missing something, please do elaborate to what that thing is.

2. How do the factions excel and strugle with different elements of the game. I'm not looking for detailed analysis, just a general overview of each faction. This is only because while there are factions that to me look better than others, I'd like to go after the play style that excites me.

Any help that you can provide is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

@question1:
Yes, ramboing (spending many orders on one strong model) is a thing and it works well... against unprepared opponents. Normally it's balanced by the fact that everything that sees you can react and if you just barrel through with your TAG there's a very real possibility that you'll get critted to death by massed combi fire. If you shoot everything and assign 1-2 dice to each enemy, you're spreading your firepower thin, can still run out of dice if you deploy too aggressively and have many visible enemies, and 1-2 dice is still enough to leave a decent chance to lose the FTF roll. it's a very different dynamic compared to other games and it takes a while to get used to.
And that's not even going into nasty things like dedicated TAG-killers like monomines, Oniwabans, camo Panzerfausts/missile launchers/ADHL, missile launchers in link teams, flash pulses in link teams (FOs are cheap, and one BTS fail against flash pulse leaves you blind and too vulnerable to continue the advance), TO camo snipers (properly positioned they impose a -12 range/cover/camo penalties to shoot them), etc, etc.

@question2:
I assume you want a playstyle summary of each factions? If so?


The "I exchanged my specials for better basic stuff" faction. Kinda bland, unless you love Neo-Catholic Space Knights or giant robots.
+ higher tech level than average - they have heavier armor, shoot better, basically are a little better at the stuff most often used. Also, TAGs.
- ...but they pay for it by having fewer tricky stuff to surprise you with. Also, shitty WIP and engineers because if you can't afford new stuff go be poor somewhere else


The "I want to play a generalist faction but want some character to it" faction. Has ninjas, cyber-samurai and bosozoku bikers. Also, brutal communist secret police.
+ best at close combat, has awesome & nonstandard HI, including automatic ones (robots under HI rules). Bikers.
- sometimes it's hard to get into said close combat, so you might end up paying for something you won't use. Doubly so in case of a few "univesalist" units.


Prison ships and 4chan in space. Anarchists, free-thinkers and weirdos of many kinds.
+ great hacking stuff, have lots of cheap & useful units while still retaining high tech level.
- little heavy gear


Basically current armed forces thrown 170 years into the future.
+ cheap units, lots of camo, can be nasty at close combat due to mad Stots and werewolves
- very low tech level, no access to advanced weaponry/visors/drones/TAGs, you gotta take more of the cheap rugged stuff and use it well


Ecology and terraforming. Islam from the humanist era meets Dune.
+ good light/medium weight units, lots of doctors, biotech enhancements, viral weaponry, impersonators.
- less heavy stuff than PanO/Yu Jing, tech level somewhere between them and Ariadna


Aliens. The "WTF bullshit hax" faction. Faction of specialists, many units have their clearly defined niches. Sectorials too.
+ lots of tricks. Impersonating TAG-killers, Nomad-level hacking on HI that's equivalent to human TAGs, an option to take over enemy units permanently, basically most CA stuff become unholy terrors when used properly.
- you pay for it. Oh boy, you do pay for it. Units are elite and very expensive, which also means it's harder to make a large list, you have to use it well because you don't have more in reserves.


You want the inhuman GitS style cyborgs, or reconstructed ancient Greek hero cyborgs? Yo ucan get both, or other stuff, as long as it's a cyborg, or clone, or robot
+ Take PanO, add even more tech and some tricks based on said tech. Lots of ODD, everything's way better than the average.
- another elite/expensive faction. Sometimes avoids overpaying for uber tech by downgrading other aspects other factions take for granted (who needs a combi rifle)


"Benevolent" aliens with a hidden agenda. Or several.
- Multiple three-man fireteams of mixed units. Great order efficiency. Have unique abilities like symbiont armor, pheromone "hacking" and allied uplifted races.
- No ability to create normal fireteams. Vulnerable to fire. Very weak standard hacking.

It should be noted that Pierzasty plays Combined Army.

Either way, with few exceptions, most factions can do most things. Is there any play style in particular you had in mind?

Claudius Sol wrote:It should be noted that Pierzasty plays Combined Army.

And Yu Jing. And Nomads. And Haqq. Your point being?

ed: Forgot Ariadna.

Claudius Sol wrote:It should be noted that Pierzasty plays Combined Army.

Either way, with few exceptions, most factions can do most things. Is there any play style in particular you had in mind?

Roger that. Is the overview still accurate? I mean, personal preference is pretty moot point if he still hit the mark, right?

I'd be going for melee if that is viable.

Another thing to keep in mind is that each faction's balance can be affected by the game type or scenario system you play. Pan-o, my faction, for example doesn't do as well in ITS due to its specialist issue, but cleans up in Death Match. Besides looking at the factions you should look into things like YAMS, 20x20, and the official ITS stuff to try and get an idea of how the faction you're thinking of getting might perform in any of those systems. Claudius is right, though, unlike most games the weak points of the factions seem to be not doing all things amazingly. As for Ramboing, like Pierzasty mentioned, AROs and anti-TAG weapons are going to limit your chances to abuse that too much unless the cover, player, list, or all of the above are in your favor.

It's more a case of my descriptions being more/less detailed according to what I know. But I assumed someone'd come around and fill what I neglected to mention about their favorite faction.

Pierzasty wrote:It's more a case of my descriptions being more/less detailed according to what I know. But I assumed someone'd come around and fill what I neglected to mention about their favorite faction.

Roger that. Honestly, you gave enough details in your descriptions, I was not really expecting even that much.

Anyway...the alphabet soup. I'm sure I'll figure that out myself in time, but since I'm aiming at ordering the basic stuff soon, what's a TAG/YAMS/20x20/FO/BTS/ADHL/TO/WIP/ODD?

shiwan8 wrote:Anyway...the alphabet soup. I'm sure I'll figure that out myself in time, but since I'm aiming at ordering the basic stuff soon, what's a TAG/YAMS/20x20/FO/BTS/ADHL/TO/WIP/ODD?

I made something for that too:
http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topi ... r-newbies/
quick answer:
TAG = giant robot
YAMS, 20x20 = fanmade mission systems
FO = forward observer
BTS = biotech shield, defense stat against nontraditional damage
ADHL = adhesive launcher
TO camo = thermoptic camouflage
WIP = willpower
ODD = optical disruption device

Excellent. Things make a lot more sense when understanding is achieved.

Hahaha, sorry! I didn't mean to imply that Pierzs was giving inaccurate assessments, only that it'd explain his rather large CA description when compared with the rest.

Oh, sorry about that. I'm used to various 40k forums, not this civilezed conduct you have here. There it's agree/insult dynamic that seems to be absent here.

You like think that this is normal but from my point of view it's rare and awesome.

Oh, most of us had experience with various other forums. Still, both DataSphere and the offical Infinity forum are very friendly and rather civil (though I'd dare to say, Datasphere is more civil, for it is more tightly moderated, I guess).

And we can discuss stuff like politcs, religion and economy and in the end we find we have no problem agreeing to disagree - or admitting we've learned something valuable form the other party (even if we still do not agree with them!)

And if soemone can't keep civil regardless of the above, well... mods here talk softly - yet carry a big stick and aren't afraid to use it. Which, in the afterthought, might be the reason they don't have to do it often...

shiwan8 wrote:I'd be going for melee if that is viable.

Let me put it this way: Even the Ninjas still carry combi rifles.

This is a shooting-dominated game. Close Combat is LETHAL if you can get there. The challenge is getting there. Like 40k, send your CC monsters to kill the other guy's mooks, and shoot his CC monsters to death. CC Monster versus CC Monster results in a lot of no-damage ties (picture two guys with blades locked against each other, staring at the other guy past the blades).

I play Yu Jing, and often the Japanese Sectorial Army (JSA). Close Combat can be done, but it needs to be planned. Use a ninja's Infiltration to start out close to the target.

You can also hidden-deploy a Ninja midfield and wait for someone to get too close. This does require you to be able to see lines of advance during the deployment phase, long before your opponent starts to move up them.

Several factions can pull off melee style combat, but none really focus solely on it. You'll always have some kind of guns with you and it's advisable to take at least one HMG or a sniper rifle even in a melee list.

Getting in to melee range is usually the hardest part, but there are several ways to help with that. Camo and Impersonation prevents the enemy from shooting you on your first movement order, Impersonation even allows you to deploy close to your target. Camo infiltrators can get close as well, but not as close as Impersonators. Smoke grenades can block line of fire completely, but have limited range. Some melee users move faster and/or have movement related skills that help them reach their destination wherever it is. Having a 2 wound and a lot of armor also helps as you can easily shrug off most ARO's. Airdropping melee users are rare, but they can help too.

Melee oriented combat... I once played a 300 point game and didn't do anything but Move and CC. I almost wiped out my opponent on turn 1. Penthesilea is scary.

Claudius Sol wrote:Melee oriented combat... I once played a 300 point game and didn't do anything but Move and CC. I almost wiped out my opponent on turn 1. Penthesilea is scary.

Emphasis on the word, 'once'.

There are several other games where I've used more CC than BS Attack, of course.

Should have known that the notorious bike ganger had "pantyslayer" in his other army...

I'd recommend that after playing several 3v3 minigames to learn the order/ARO rules, that you build up to 150 points by adding one or two new rules per game. From there, you can play some games that focus on CC, or hacking, or something else, about 200 points per side.