In terms of faction sizes, what are the relative populations/land/wealth owned by the 'normal' factions? (I assume CA is bigger than the whole Human Sphere + Tohaa combined)
Is it:
PanO > Yu Jing + Nomads + Haqqislam + Ariadna all together, or would Yu Jing + one or more of the others be overall larger in size compared to PanO in any of these factors?
Fluff: Faction sizes
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I am not entirely sure. But I leaning to the later. F.e. Yu Jing could also have more citizens per planet, than Pan-O. Maybe there are some numbers somewhere, but I don't recall them, sorry-
We know that the factions are roughly equal in terms of power, otherwise they would not have come to rest in their current configuration. In terms of population, I think PanO and YuJing are roughly equivalent, followed by Haqqislam, followed by Ariadna, with Nomads in the rear.
Why?
PanO and YuJing are both superpowers. They fight so hard over territory, that we can assume by the fact that they are roughly balanced that they must have roughly equivalent success grabbing new worlds (or territory on shared worlds, like Paradiso).
Haqqislam is a smaller nation, rendered disproportionately powerful (and relevant) by their control of the silk trade. However, their preference for biotech over hard tech and willingness to live in relatively small communities on inhospitable planets limits their population.
Ariadna's population is limited for similar reasons - they have relatively low technology and live on an only partly-terraformed planet (ie. they are still dealing with angry local aliens, for crying out loud). Given that Haqqislam has more planets and is both wealthier and more advanced than Ariadna, I can assume that they probably have more people, but not by that much.
Nomads are probably the tiniest population. I mean, except for a very few planetary colonies, a few asteroid mining stations, spaceship drydocks, and data havens owned and operated by Nomad nationals, and Nomad nationals who are, themselves, nomadic, living in smaller spaceships, the entire Nomad nation fits on three spaceships. Three enormous mobile space station-sized space ships, but nevertheless, three space ships. I doubt there are as many Nomads as there are Ariadnans. They are, by far, the smallest nation, and wield the most disproportionate power, thanks to having the corner on their varied skills and services.
Why?
PanO and YuJing are both superpowers. They fight so hard over territory, that we can assume by the fact that they are roughly balanced that they must have roughly equivalent success grabbing new worlds (or territory on shared worlds, like Paradiso).
Haqqislam is a smaller nation, rendered disproportionately powerful (and relevant) by their control of the silk trade. However, their preference for biotech over hard tech and willingness to live in relatively small communities on inhospitable planets limits their population.
Ariadna's population is limited for similar reasons - they have relatively low technology and live on an only partly-terraformed planet (ie. they are still dealing with angry local aliens, for crying out loud). Given that Haqqislam has more planets and is both wealthier and more advanced than Ariadna, I can assume that they probably have more people, but not by that much.
Nomads are probably the tiniest population. I mean, except for a very few planetary colonies, a few asteroid mining stations, spaceship drydocks, and data havens owned and operated by Nomad nationals, and Nomad nationals who are, themselves, nomadic, living in smaller spaceships, the entire Nomad nation fits on three spaceships. Three enormous mobile space station-sized space ships, but nevertheless, three space ships. I doubt there are as many Nomads as there are Ariadnans. They are, by far, the smallest nation, and wield the most disproportionate power, thanks to having the corner on their varied skills and services.
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ElectricPaladin - Posts: 195
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I'd say you are close, but not necessarily on the spot.
PanO controls the biggest number of planets and partial territories on disputed planets.
YJ comes close second, but might actually have more citizens if the wealth level is adequate: all the Asian nations, AFAIK, prefer large families if only economically possible. With the need to populate these new territories, there would be no need for StateEmpire to limit population growth (provided they will be able to manage it).
Haqq controls just one planetary system, with a pretty unhospitable planet. They have, however, made it way more hospitable, and they are generally tough people used to rather rough conditions. They are pioneers still, and this also tends to promote large families. Also, Haqq strong areas - medicine and bioscience - could indicate that there is excellent medical service available to Haqq citizens on ready basis (so infant / child mortality, a serious limiting factor in societies livinig in inhospitable areas, might not be a factor any longer - fluff on Shahate seems to support that view), also, that agiculture benefits form life sciences, allowing the bare necessities of life (food, water, shelter) to be readily available in quantities suitable for a rapidly growing population.
As for Ariadna, they haven't managed to settle the whole planet - there are just 5 provinces (Matr, Caledonia, Merovingia, USAriadna and Tartary) that are more or less populated and under government control. The rest of the planet has not been yet settled...
PanO controls the biggest number of planets and partial territories on disputed planets.
YJ comes close second, but might actually have more citizens if the wealth level is adequate: all the Asian nations, AFAIK, prefer large families if only economically possible. With the need to populate these new territories, there would be no need for StateEmpire to limit population growth (provided they will be able to manage it).
Haqq controls just one planetary system, with a pretty unhospitable planet. They have, however, made it way more hospitable, and they are generally tough people used to rather rough conditions. They are pioneers still, and this also tends to promote large families. Also, Haqq strong areas - medicine and bioscience - could indicate that there is excellent medical service available to Haqq citizens on ready basis (so infant / child mortality, a serious limiting factor in societies livinig in inhospitable areas, might not be a factor any longer - fluff on Shahate seems to support that view), also, that agiculture benefits form life sciences, allowing the bare necessities of life (food, water, shelter) to be readily available in quantities suitable for a rapidly growing population.
As for Ariadna, they haven't managed to settle the whole planet - there are just 5 provinces (Matr, Caledonia, Merovingia, USAriadna and Tartary) that are more or less populated and under government control. The rest of the planet has not been yet settled...
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
Errhile wrote:I'd say you are close, but not necessarily on the spot.
PanO controls the biggest number of planets and partial territories on disputed planets.
YJ comes close second, but might actually have more citizens if the wealth level is adequate: all the Asian nations, AFAIK, prefer large families if only economically possible. With the need to populate these new territories, there would be no need for StateEmpire to limit population growth (provided they will be able to manage it).
Haqq controls just one planetary system, with a pretty unhospitable planet. They have, however, made it way more hospitable, and they are generally tough people used to rather rough conditions. They are pioneers still, and this also tends to promote large families. Also, Haqq strong areas - medicine and bioscience - could indicate that there is excellent medical service available to Haqq citizens on ready basis (so infant / child mortality, a serious limiting factor in societies livinig in inhospitable areas, might not be a factor any longer - fluff on Shahate seems to support that view), also, that agiculture benefits form life sciences, allowing the bare necessities of life (food, water, shelter) to be readily available in quantities suitable for a rapidly growing population.
As for Ariadna, they haven't managed to settle the whole planet - there are just 5 provinces (Matr, Caledonia, Merovingia, USAriadna and Tartary) that are more or less populated and under government control. The rest of the planet has not been yet settled...
All of these are good points. So, you'd say that I have more or less the right order, except possibly the wrong proportions. So, something more like...
Yu-Jing/PanO
...
Haqq
...
...
...
Ariadna
Nomads
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ElectricPaladin - Posts: 195
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It may be so.
See, we know how amny planets / planetary territories each faction controls. There are the maps in the books.
We can - basing on that - project, that population of PanOoceania and Yu Jing can be counted in billions (even today, China is over billion people - and it is only a part of the future YJ... similar to India, which is apparently a part of the PanO). How many billions though?
No idea. No data on population density. Several billion, though, are pretty likely - but how many?
We could easily guess that Haqqislam has a population of a couple billion people. Due to harsh living conditions on Bouraq, probably less than the densely poulated central planets of PanO and YJ, but, for exmaple, I wouldn't write off Bouraq equalling Acontaciemento in that matter. I'm merely thoring numbers at the board - four billion? Six billion?
Ariadna... several million is a given, but whether they've got to the one billion threshold, I cannot say. I'd also say they havent made it two billion, but it is just a number I pulled out of thin air.
Nomads - there surely are several million of them. But how many million - I have no idea...
See, we know how amny planets / planetary territories each faction controls. There are the maps in the books.
We can - basing on that - project, that population of PanOoceania and Yu Jing can be counted in billions (even today, China is over billion people - and it is only a part of the future YJ... similar to India, which is apparently a part of the PanO). How many billions though?
No idea. No data on population density. Several billion, though, are pretty likely - but how many?
We could easily guess that Haqqislam has a population of a couple billion people. Due to harsh living conditions on Bouraq, probably less than the densely poulated central planets of PanO and YJ, but, for exmaple, I wouldn't write off Bouraq equalling Acontaciemento in that matter. I'm merely thoring numbers at the board - four billion? Six billion?
Ariadna... several million is a given, but whether they've got to the one billion threshold, I cannot say. I'd also say they havent made it two billion, but it is just a number I pulled out of thin air.
Nomads - there surely are several million of them. But how many million - I have no idea...
They say there will be Heaven and the Fount of Kausar,
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
That there, there will be pure wine and honey and sugar
Fill up the wine cup and place it in my hand
(For) ready cash is better than a thousand credits.
- Rubayyat of Omar Khayyam, but it is a shoddy translation
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